Topic: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church? (Read 23351 times)

MrSparrow · « **on:** January 31, 2007, 10:03:33 AM »

If your church sings songs that someone else recorded and you are not paying royalties via CCLI, you are a theif and a robber.

You can not legally display the words in public nor perfom music without paying royalties.

You really can't even show videos to your youth group or bible study group without paying royalties either. Churches must also join CVLI (Christian Video Licensing Inc). www.cvli.com

How do you think gospel songwriters get paid? If your church is not a member of CCLI, you can join at www.ccli.com

CCLI stands for Christian Copyrights Licensing Inc.

My church pays around $250 a year and we LEGALLY have access to the music that you hear and see on the radio and tv. Every three years they ask you to send them the list of the songs that you sing in worship so the people that actually wrote the songs you love to sing can get their royalty check (money for writing the song).

There are tons of benefits that go along with being a member of CCLI. There is access to thousands of songs with not just the lyrics but the chord progressions and lead sheets also (the words with the symbols for the chord progressions over them).

If you are not a member and do not plan on being a member, I pray that you realize that you are illegally stealing music and you can not play the role that you didn't know.

This is an area that our black churches definately have dropped the ball. I pray that you align yourself with the legal practices of our country regarding the music that you sing in church.

If your church can not afford to do this at the time, please refrain from singing copywritten music from the artists/songwriters that you can't afford to pay until you can.

Right is right and wrong is wrong. Please if your church is out of alignment, do the right thing and join.

MrSparrow

saxandkeys · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2007, 12:14:58 PM »

What's up Ms. Sparrow,

I went to the ccli website, and it seems to me that their emphasis is on distribution of audio or video of the songs performance, and copies of the lyrics.

I couldn't find anything on the site that said a choir (group) could NOT perform the selection without permission. Yes, I did see the part about not distributing the lyrics ..... but that said for CONGREGATIONAL SINGING...which leads me to this question:

According to the law, if I teach a choir a song (without handing out the lyrics)...don't display the lyrics for the congregation...don't record it on audio or video media...and don't print the title of the song on the bulletin...................I'm obeying the law?????

..........I don't know how to respond to this.....personally, it seems kind of hypocritical (for lack of a better term)?.......just an opinion.

nessalynn77 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2007, 01:42:39 PM »

This is my first time hearing this.

MrSparrow · « **Reply #3 on:** January 31, 2007, 03:10:27 PM »

If you are performing copywritten material that you didn't write, you must pay. It's illegal to even put the words up on the screen for praise and worship if you haven't got the permission of the composer of the song. Have we been doing it anyway? Yes. Is it legal? No.

CCLI doesn't promote it's own music. You will find almost EVERY artist from every style of gospel/christian that want to get paid for their music are members.

Fred Hammond? Yes he's in there...
Donald Lawrence? Yep
Tonex? Yep
Kirk Franklin? Yep
The dude who wrote Have You Tried Jesus He's Alright? I doubt it...
Steven Hurd? YEP
etc...

Call them if you have any questions 1 (800) 234-2446

MrSparrow

4hisglory · « **Reply #4 on:** January 31, 2007, 03:23:47 PM »

Saxandkeys, you are correct, it has more to do with the distribution of the music. By just performaning the music, you are not violating the copyright law.

But you are if you:

1. Peform a Kirk Franklin song and your church then sells the tape/CD. This is why alot of church are starting to cut out some of the singing from the tapes CD.

2. You can't make photocopies of the words or display them publically without a license.

3. You can't distribute BURNT CDs to chior members (everyone knew this)

Stuff like that. But just by singing a song, you are not. That is covered by something like the fair use by a non profit organization. Something like that.

nessalynn77 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 31, 2007, 03:51:13 PM »

Quote from: 4hisglory on January 31, 2007, 03:23:47 PM

Saxandkeys, you are correct, it has more to do with the distribution of the music. By just performaning the music, you are not violating the copyright law.

But you are if you:

1. Peform a Kirk Franklin song and your church then sells the tape/CD. This is why alot of church are starting to cut out some of the singing from the tapes CD.

2. You can't make photocopies of the words or display them publically without a license.

3. You can't distribute BURNT CDs to chior members (everyone knew this)

Stuff like that. But just by singing a song, you are not. That is covered by something like the fair use by a non profit organization. Something like that.

Oh, okay. That makes sense.

vtguy84 · « **Reply #6 on:** January 31, 2007, 04:43:41 PM »

Thanks D for the clarification.

MrSparrow · « **Reply #7 on:** January 31, 2007, 07:00:38 PM »

Are you certain? I was told we couldn't sing the songs at all if they were taking an offering at the church. Putting the words on the screen is just the same as passing out the lyrics. I talked to the CCLI people myself. I was told by them that the people/churches who don't use CCLI or pay the composers directly for use of their material are illegally using the music.

If your choir is singing a concert with copyrighten material and you don't pay the songwriters, you have stolen their material and made a profit off of it.

MrSparrow

LyricTenor · « **Reply #8 on:** February 01, 2007, 09:12:29 AM »

Quote from: MrSparrow on January 31, 2007, 07:00:38 PM

Are you certain? I was told we couldn't sing the songs at all if they were taking an offering at the church. Putting the words on the screen is just the same as passing out the lyrics. I talked to the CCLI people myself. I was told by them that the people/churches who don't use CCLI or pay the composers directly for use of their material are illegally using the music.

If your choir is singing a concert with copyrighten material and you don't pay the songwriters, you have stolen their material and made a profit off of it.

MrSparrow

For true? I thought the monies collected were in support of the choir itself. You know, for anniversary and whatnot. Now, I know folks are coming to hear the music. This means that they're paying for it as well?

ABOVEALL · « **Reply #9 on:** February 01, 2007, 09:24:57 AM »

Somebody Trippin'

bishopcole · « **Reply #10 on:** February 01, 2007, 09:26:49 AM »

Quote from: 4hisglory on January 31, 2007, 03:23:47 PM

Saxandkeys, you are correct, it has more to do with the distribution of the music. By just performaning the music, you are not violating the copyright law.

But you are if you:

1. Peform a Kirk Franklin song and your church then sells the tape/CD. This is why alot of church are starting to cut out some of the singing from the tapes CD.

2. You can't make photocopies of the words or display them publically without a license.

3. You can't distribute BURNT CDs to chior members (everyone knew this)

Stuff like that. But just by singing a song, you are not. That is covered by something like the fair use by a non profit organization. Something like that.

This is correct. If you try to Distribute any of another professionals songs from your church sunday or wednesday service cd/ tape or dvd and here is the catch... "GET CAUGHT" you and your church will get sued!! This is fact!! Bishop Cole

bishopcole · « **Reply #11 on:** February 01, 2007, 09:32:18 AM »

Quote from: MrSparrow on January 31, 2007, 07:00:38 PM

Are you certain? I was told we couldn't sing the songs at all if they were taking an offering at the church. Putting the words on the screen is just the same as passing out the lyrics. I talked to the CCLI people myself. I was told by them that the people/churches who don't use CCLI or pay the composers directly for use of their material are illegally using the music.

If your choir is singing a concert with copyrighten material and you don't pay the songwriters, you have stolen their material and made a profit off of it.

MrSparrow

Yes MrSparrow, only if you try to sell it, then you risk getting into trouble. CCLI is and has been trying to slow down the process of copywriting problems for a long time. Mostly big churches have this problem and this is who CCLI is trying to target because this is where the most of the monies is being lost at. If you need any more clarification, please just ask me and I will try my best to answer. Bishop Cole

Mim · « **Reply #12 on:** February 01, 2007, 06:30:23 PM »

The following info is from the CCLI website

"Q:

We only project songs. Do we need a license?
A:

In most cases, yes. Entering and storing copyrighted song lyrics on a computer without permission of the copyright owner is a reproduction copying activity and is a violation of the Federal Copyright Law. "

I suppose most questions could be answered correctly by just visiting their website: http://www.ccli.com/US.aspx

princessofpraise · « **Reply #13 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:17:05 PM »

Live performance of a song is not going against copy right laws.That's why you can sing a song by sound trax, but if you look on the trax, it will say, "for live performance only". But - You can't copy the music, or project it, or record it without the proper license. As a matter of fact, just because you have joined the CCLI, doesn't mean you can record someone else's music. You still have to get a mechanical license from the author of the song to record it and sell it. And you must pay that person usually around 6 to 8 cents a copy for every cd you sell. The artist usually sets their price per copy when you sign the mechanical license. I do know about this because I have had to deal with this issue. So, check your music. A lot of porfolios even state that you can't copy the music in them if you do have CCLI license. It pays to check into this. I know of a church that was audited and was fined over $300,000 due to not having a CCLI license. This church no loger exists because of that.

Mrsparrow,you are correct: churches need to get legal. I have close friends who have written a lot of music, and it's like stealing money out of the artists pocket. Just think - what if you had written a song that became popular, would you not want to recieve what is due to you? This is how some artists make a living. You are taking money out of someone's pocket everytime you copy music, record a service with the music on it, or project the words during your services. Don't think God doesn't see this and isn't going to hold you accountable for it.

MrSparrow · « **Reply #14 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:03:40 AM »

Is there a way that Pastor's can see this information? Is there a Pastor's forum?

MrSparrow

sjonathan02 · « **Reply #15 on:** February 05, 2007, 09:21:19 AM »

Quote from: MrSparrow on February 05, 2007, 09:03:40 AM

Is there a way that Pastor's can see this information? Is there a Pastor's forum?

MrSparrow

A Pastor is like anyone else. All they have to do is sign up to LGM. I don't think they even need to sign up, they could just be a guest.

nessalynn77 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 05, 2007, 04:15:53 PM »

This has been a very enlightening thread...

vtguy84 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 05, 2007, 06:02:23 PM »

Quote from: nessalynn77 on February 05, 2007, 04:15:53 PM

This has been a very enlightening thread...

I agree, Nessa.

jazzy4reall · « **Reply #18 on:** February 06, 2007, 10:37:04 PM »

I'm so surprised about that......

rut · « **Reply #19 on:** February 11, 2007, 03:33:05 PM »

NO DISRESPECT TO ALL,

but you mean to tell me we can't give praises to god because the music is copyrighted.
Sing all types of songs, and to be honest with you I don't know which song is copyright or not.
I'll aint that big anyway so it's should'nt matter. We currently dont have any visual/audio tape ministry so I don't see how that copyrighted

Author Topic: Are you legally singing gospel music in your church? (Read 23351 times)

Mim