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How many homsexual ministers of music do you know?

0 None
10 (15.9%)
1
8 (12.7%)
2-5
18 (28.6%)
TONS OF 'EM
20 (31.7%)
JUST FEMININE MUSICIANS
7 (11.1%)

Total Members Voted: 57

Voting closed: April 16, 2004, 09:47:19 AM

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Author Topic: Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?  (Read 4851 times)

Offline Jaywayko

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« on: April 16, 2004, 09:47:19 AM »
Why do our black churches have so  many homosexual musicians and feminine ones too. I think it is a topic we all need to address and especially some of the pastors. I don't think it is good for the church. But hey that is my opinion. How many of you have often thought about how many black male church musicians out there are homosexual? Just be honest

Offline newgreaterlover

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #1 on: April 16, 2004, 10:37:07 AM »
here we go again   :(  :(  :(
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Offline newgreaterlover

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2004, 11:02:17 AM »
YOU'LL FIND THE SAME POST ON PAGE 14 IN THIS FORUM
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Offline sbinf

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2004, 11:16:04 AM »
It's absolutely ridiculous that one would equate feminity in a man to sinfulness. Masculinity and femininity are socialized concepts. Gender is not an inborn trait, sex it. Having said that, one can't very well assign sinfulness (something determined by God) to a human idea, gender. Why don't we just get off the topic  of homosexuality and discuss music here; especially if we're not offering any insight into ministering to ALL sinners and praise.

Offline BBoy

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2004, 02:18:14 PM »
I'm kind of new to the LGM family, so I really don't know how many times this issue has been raised. I think that if it needed to be deleted, one of the moderators would have done just that. When I teach a class, when one of my students asks a question over and over, it means they aren't convinced of the answer.

So here is my question. I wonder if the reason it keeps coming up over and over is because some out there are who TRULY are wondering if this is a sin or not.

So I would ask this question. Let's say a wonderful musician, who could sing till you thought you would just fly away, went to your church. You thought "This dude is gifted, and I mean I am so blessed by his ministry. "

Then you found out that he robbed banks. No, not USED to rob banks in the past, but was currently a bank robber. He knew you wouldn't understand, so he decided to keep it secret. And he's such a nice guy . . . much nicer than some of the other people you sing with. Surely this must mean he is saved!

Question: Would his bank robbing be okay, as long as the money wasn't yours? Would it be none of your business? Should he minister?

Put the question in any context. A wonderful organist who is hooked on pornography, but can play like no one else you have heard. And he is SO NICE TO YOU! As long as he isn't hurting you, is it any of your business whether or not what he does is wrong? Should he minister?

Or a wonderful pianist who is having an affair with another woman's husband. It just isn't your business, right? I mean, if she can play well and she is NICE, then that means she is saved, right? She she minister?

Folks, holiness is not just someone being nice to you. Just becasue someone can sing well doesn't mean they are saved. If they are not living a clean life, they shouldn't minister in music or any other way. We love them. Jesus paid the price for their sins. But true love tells the TRUTH, and the truth is that no effeminate person or abuser of themselves with mankind shall inherit the Kingdom of God. Only the Blood of Jesus can save someone . . . your liking them doesn't get them into the Kingdom! Tell them the truth. Tell them what Romans says:

"Likewise the men, forsaking the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one towards another. Men with men, working that which is unseemly in the eyes of God, and receiving in themselves the due recompense of their reward which was meet."

Now, what could be unclear about that? I know and work with many people who are living a gay lifestyle. Some even claim to be Christians. But the Bible tells me not to be deceived, such will not inherit the Kingdom of God. I can't be a witness unto them unless I tell the truth, because that's what a witness is . . . someone who tells the truth in a situation.

"Thou shalt not lay with mankind as with womankind."

What is unclear about that?

Homosexuality is a spirit, and like all spirits it has an agenda; it has a plan. Some people, because of molestation, rejection, rebellion, etc; have an open door in their lives for that spirit to attack. We can't say "Well, maybe it's okay" because if no one in the Church stands against this spirit, who will?

And what is next? Now people are considering having one gender bathrooms, calling us narrow-minded if we are uncomfortable using the bathroom with a person of the opposite sex. THe CHurch, folks, is the only agancy with the power . . . Holy Ghost power . . . to put a stop to this. But we have to stand up for what is right.

Now that's just right folks. Love homosexuals. Tell them Jesus loves them. They wouldn't be in the Church unless they were looking for help!  8O What a disappointment when the Church won't tell them the truth. . . kinda like a doctor who won't give medicine and lets you die, or a teacher who won't give the right answer because they would rather you like them as a friend. No matter that you need the right answer to graduate and live a good life. Or a lawyer who sits back and lets you go to jail when they can help you.   :roll: Oh yes, that is exactly what we are when we refuse to deal with these issues.  8O Tell them they don't have to live a secret life.  :lol: They don't have to hate themselves, feeling like a freak of nature.  Jesus can set them free.  :lol:  :lol:

Now Be Blessed. BBoy  8)
Joshua 1: 7, 8

Offline pmshort19

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2004, 02:21:49 PM »
Persons like SbinF have their own philosophy and beliefs about certain topics and this one you can only have one being in righteousness.  If you claim to be a saint, you are not supposed to live in a fashion that goes against God's designed nature of your gender, ie, men aren't to walk with switches or talk with that of a soft or weak voice.  Keep it real and please God!

Offline sbinf

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2004, 02:45:02 PM »
Quote from: pmshort19
Persons like SbinF have their own philosophy and beliefs about certain topics and this one you can only have one being in righteousness.  If you claim to be a saint, you are not supposed to live in a fashion that goes against God's designed nature of your gender, ie, men aren't to walk with switches or talk with that of a soft or weak voice.  Keep it real and please God!


Reading my reply, it doesn't mention homosexuality anywhere. My philosophy is simply this, feminism and masculinism have nothing to do with righteousness. Why? Because feminism and masculinism are decided by society. On that note, feminism in a man does not necessarily equate to homosexuality. You can prove this by looking at societal trends over time. What's considered masculine today wasn't necessarily considered such 50 years, or even 5 years ago necessarily. If this is a difficult concept to understand, grab any intro sociology college text book and it will echo much the same as what I am arguing. Knowledge is a terrible thing to waste as the UNCF says, but it appears as well that it may be a terrible thing to have too....and THAT is keeping it real. So I challenge you to find the verses that say men should speak with a strong voice, wear pants, and like watching footbal. It just isn't there. If you can indeed find a passage in the scripture that deals with the issue of gender, that is, what men and women should wear, how they should talk, what mannerisms they should project as men and women, I would be more than glad to study it and go from there.
I suppose perhaps you missed my point there. And the bigger point is this, learngospelmusic.com is simply that, a place to learn gospel music. It just annoys me when the same topics such as this, having absolutely nothing to do with music, keep popping up. If there truly is such an urge to discuss the topic, maybe someone should host and moderate discussinghomosexuality.com or issuesinthechurch.com.

If I am to subscribe to some things I hear, the Bible says a lot more now than it ever has (and does) when I read it.

Offline 4hisglory

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Wow....
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2004, 05:22:31 PM »
Wow...I've been away to long. :)  As stated before, this subject keeps coming up,  but I am sure it is coming up for a reason.  I am in the process of  organizing the site a little better so when the same topics come up, it will be easy to find the old discussions on the same matter. Bear with me a little.  :)
:)

Offline cmingus

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re homosexuality etc
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2004, 12:04:56 AM »
........I believe that gender identification and homosexuality are determined by the biology you inherit - nobody 'chooses' to be gay or straight, black or white -God chooses that for you.  A man who seems feminine isn't necessarily gay, his biology just pushes him in that direction.  Besides, only God knows the heart of man, so who are we to judge.  To me, making a big issue out of this is purely hate mongering.  At any time when confronted by such a question you ask yourself what would Jesus do?--I don't think He would spend his time agonizing about their sexual orientation - he would see the good and bad in the person, not devise ways of marginalizing them.  I think we should look at sexual orientation the same way forward thinking people look at race relations - use the love of Christ to to love and accept your fellow human being - look for the goodness instead of what's wrong. Don't let prejudice grow from your ignorance and fear.

Offline richardngeorge

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2004, 01:29:09 PM »
I don't post any response to these very often... however, I do believe that it is not anyone's place but God to judge. Even the Priests dropped their stones and walked away in shame. So before you start dragging things out of the closets of others, check your own first. Let God do his job, and convict those of their sins. Whomever does whatever in the confines of their own home is between theselves and God. I have found that "Christians" will beat a struggling person down until they give up. Where is the encouragement, the support. We tend to be walking about with swords drawn just waiting for the weak. What makes you better than someone else. My walk with God is completely different than everyone else. Does that make me less of a spiritual person, and if so, why? Are you so "close to God", that you have forgotten about your walk with God? Think twice before you start poking people with sticks...

Offline BBoy

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2004, 02:13:32 PM »
Bingo.
Joshua 1: 7, 8

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2004, 02:19:04 PM »
Wow, you said it better than I ever could've, but I'm in full agreement.

Offline BBoy

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2004, 03:13:49 PM »
Maybe I should explain what I meant by "Bingo" in my last post, so no-one misunderstands me.

I had a suspicion (actually, an inner unction) that the reason why this issue keeps coming up is that there are a lot of people out there who really AREN'T certain if homosexuality actually IS a sin. Hollywood, the liberal agenda of politics, and much of the public school system are constantly sending the message that homosexuality and lesbianism are fine. And there are many people who are homosexuals that seem to be so NICE . . . much nicer than some people in church. They are talented, willing to help, and so gifted. They seem to truly care for people and want to make a difference. Some people actually would be tempted to think that maybe homosexuality isn't a sin; maybe they ARE born that way. The WORD, however, says otherwise. Anytime you give the WORD about a certain issue, it should settle the issue. I'm wondering, actually, what a lot of people are being taught.

Please read my post carefully. I said to LOVE those who are caught up in the darkness of such a lifestyle. I also acknowledge that some people have open doors in their lives to this weakness, through no fault of their own (rejection, molestation, lack of true teaching, etc). We love them, just as Jesus came to help those who needed help . . . and yes, WE ALL NEED JESUS' HELP. But what would Jesus do? Because Jesus was THE WORD made flesh, He would help them with the WORD.

I beleive the post was not about what whether your business was your business . . . of course it is your business. Whether you accept salvation or not is your business. Whether you go to hell or not is your own business. Whether or not Adam and Eve ate from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was their own business (it did, however, affect the rest of humanity, like any sin). Are you grown, then your business is your own business. The post was about whether or not people caught up in this lifestyle should be up ministering. Not going to church . . . of course they should be in church; that's where the help is. Should they be MINISTERING?  I ask again: should a bank robber be MINISTERING? How about someone who is caught up in pornography . . . should he/ she be MINISTERING? A wonderful pianist who is having an affair with a married man . . . should she be MINISTERING?

As a man called to preach and teach the BIBLE, it is my business to heold out the Word of Life to all men. To help build God's Kingdom, till the Day He comes back for me is my business. To help destroy the kingdom of darkness is my business. Telling the devil "Satan, the LOD rebuke you . . . stop speaking to people's minds and let them go in Jesus' Name" . . . that's my business. To let people know what is right is my business. And if you think it isn't your business, you are not a minister of the Gospel. Yes I said it. If your business is not to build the Kingdom of God and let God use to you to set captives free, YOU ARE NO MINISTER OF THE GOSPEL. And I don't care you can play until the roof blows off . . . the devil can play and sing too! But he can't tell the truth, because the truth wasn't in him. I'd rather play "Mary had a little lamb" and tell peole the truth!

Now I would have to remind everyone . . . in love . . . about the apostle Paul's response to the Corinthian church who refused to confront sin in their church. A young man was into incest, and they refused to do anything about it! They, to, thought that it was none of their business . . . that a young man who was sleeping with his step-mother was under grace, and who were they to judge? It was none of their business, right? Paul read them like a BOOK! He said "Your glorying (going about as if nothing is wrong) is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?"

It sounds so wonderful, so giving, when we say "Don't judge." We aren't judging. We are no one to judge, because without Jesus we'd all to the same hell. We are saying what is right ACCORDING TO THE WORD. We are also saying that THE WORD CAN SET ANYONE FREE; whether the sin is fornication, lying, gossip, homosexuality, adultery, etc. And according to the WORD, there ARE sins. I kinda suspected that there were some who weren't sure whether homosexuality was a sin or not. Some who might have thought, "Bro So and So might be gay, but he is SO GIFTED! I just feel so much better when he sings, or plays the piano. I'd rather hear him sing then here Elder So and So try to preach. And he sure treats everyone really nice . . . better than some of these other peole who are married with kids! Maybe you CAN be saved and gay."

Careful. Don't be deceived.

But being gifted isn't being saved. Being nice isn't being saved. Many nice, saved people will go to hell. The Bible says to pursue righteousness, without which NO MAN WILL SEE GOD. Being saved is accepting Jesus Christ as Your Personal Savior, repenting from and rejecting the things of sin and darkness, and living for God ACCORDING TO HIS WORD.  

That's what I meant when I said "Bingo."

So let me repeat: If you have people who are in the darkness of such a lifestyle, pray for them. Love them. Keep their business private . . . but encourage them to seek Spirit-filled, Word-based counseling with the pastor. You can like them all you want . . . but if they don't repent, they'll still go to hell with everyone else who was nice and living a lifestyle contrary to the WORD. Let them talk to you, cry with you, confess their lives to you. Don't treat them like they have a huge booger up thier nose. Maybe they will see Jesus through how you treat them; with LOVE and TRUTH. I am currently praying for two men, who call themselves ministers, who are openly gay and want to live as a couple. I work with one of them, and I tell you, the more we saints who work here pray for them and love them, the more uncomfortable they get. That let's me know the Holy Ghost is moving.  :wink: They can be free.  :lol: And yes, church . . . IT IS OUR BUSINESS.  :wink:

To the moderators of this site, I do apologize if I have caused you more work.  :wink:  :lol:  :lol: But as you are Spirit-filled saints, I'm sure you understand that I can't apologize for holding forth The WORD, the only thing that has ever set anyone free.  :)

Now Be Blessed . . . BBoy  8)
Joshua 1: 7, 8

Offline BBoy

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2004, 10:04:49 PM »
A typo. In my last post, I said, "Many, nice, saved people will go to hell." An error in typing. I meant "Many nice, GIFTED people will go to hell." My point was that just because a person is nice and talented doesn't mean they are saved.
Joshua 1: 7, 8

bwa_patat

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a little WORD to bboy
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2004, 06:22:54 AM »
Hello and a wonderful Sunday from Paris
This posting is above all a reaction to Bboy's last rantings, but everyone else is of course welcome to read on. I'm trying my best to keep calm since I've got very strong feelings about this topic, being a fully fledged homo myself and having been in a same sex relationship for more than twelve years. Years ago, I was very confused about my sexuality, partially because of people who say that the Bible condemns homosexuality. So I went out and got myself five different Bibles (two in German, two in French and one in English) and you know what? All this talk about homosexuality burns down to nearly nothing!
First of all, I challenge you to find one verse for or against lesbianism.
Don't even try it - the Bible is absolutely silent about women sleeping with each other.
Concerning male homosexuality, I found some interesting things. Why do you people still bother quoting Leviticus? Do you still sacrifice animals? Besides that I challenge you to live your life according to Leviticus: I wish you much fun eating those grasshoppers, not shaving, not wearing mixed fabrics, and not approaching the Altar when you've got pimples.
In some Bibles, Leviticus tells us to put to death men who sleep with a man as they would with a woman (well, as for me, I wouldn't be caught sleeping with a woman in the first place, so how do I know what it would be like, but well...), in some others Leviticus condemns men who sleep with... BOYS!!! So there must be a word that's difficult to translate in the beginning if everybody comes up with a different version!
Unfortunately, I read only German, French, English, and a little Latin. I'd really like to know me some ancient Hebrew and Greek to bring a little light into all the confusion. But to me it seems that all the passages in Scripture that are commonly used against homosexuals are NOT clear at all to say the least.
And may I insist: there's nothing about Lesbians.
As for Hollywood and the public school system supposedly constantly sending out messages that homosexuality is fine, I can only say THANK GOD FOR THAT ! Because only twenty or thirty years back that sure was NOT the case - and in many countries it still isn't!
And just one last question: deep in your heart, do you really think it's not completely over the top to compare homosexuals to bankrobbers? ? ?
Best regards
Jan

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #15 on: April 18, 2004, 04:50:10 PM »
I too think that we should keep the subject matter in this group to gospel music. I have my own opinion about homosexuality but I'll keep it to myself. I need to be the best musician that I can be. So I try to keep my focus on that fact.

Offline D-sharp

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What does GOD say.
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2004, 10:26:28 AM »
I have noticed a few people respond by saying "I have my own views about homosexuality".  Truth be told it doesn't matter what you think but what God's Word says.  Homosexuality IS a SIN.

The Bible refers to married unions between a man and a woman.  It also clarifies that homosexuality is unatural and an abomination.  

The bible does condem lesbians in Romans 1:26 and Homosexual men in verse 27.  Then it explains the consequences in verse 28 "God gave them over to a reprobate mind".  

Though Homosexuality is a huge problem amoung musicians in church so is heterosexual promiscuity.  GOD requires that we live HOLY.

Offline ChoirFANatic

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Homosexuality or Femininity among male musicians?
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2004, 06:26:07 PM »
Bboy you are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT WITH EVERYTHING YOU SAID AND THE REASON WHY IS BECAUSE IT IS BIBLICALLY BASED!


It amazes me how people who are guilty of certain sins and do not acknowledge them to Jesus  always try to fit the bible to their lifestyle!The Word of God cuts sharper than a 2 edge sword!


To Bw-patatf
I hate it when people lie on the word GOD! The bible does confront lesbianism in Romans 1:26. 2ndly The word homosexual is not a term just for gay men it is a term for gay men and women. It simply means a man OR WOMEN attracted to the same sex. The word lesbian was not even a word back then if you REALLY DID RESEARCH YOU WOULD KNOW THAT! So when the bible says homosexuals they are reffering to people who are attracted to the same sex. DONT TRY TO TWIST THINGS AROUND SO YOU CAN FELL BETTER ABOUT YOUR LIFESTYLE!

Since i am truly convinced that you dont read your bible(it is obvious since you think that the only homosexual refrences are in the OT) Here are some other scriptures  1 Cor 6:9....1 Tim 1:10


Those are new testament scriptures for you to"STUDY" :roll:




BBoy is not judging he is just simply stating what the bible says ! The BIBLE is judging and it is supposed to.


If you want to continue in your lifestyle thats between YOU AND GOD and frankly I would not bet my eternity on being seperate from God just for 60 or 70 years on earth and for some people not even that long. ITS NOT WORTH IT!

Offline dcweats

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Re: re homosexuality etc
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2004, 07:56:09 AM »
Quote from: cmingus
........I believe that gender identification and homosexuality are determined by the biology you inherit - nobody 'chooses' to be gay or straight, black or white -God chooses that for you.  A man who seems feminine isn't necessarily gay, his biology just pushes him in that direction.  Besides, only God knows the heart of man, so who are we to judge.  To me, making a big issue out of this is purely hate mongering.  At any time when confronted by such a question you ask yourself what would Jesus do?--I don't think He would spend his time agonizing about their sexual orientation - he would see the good and bad in the person, not devise ways of marginalizing them.  I think we should look at sexual orientation the same way forward thinking people look at race relations - use the love of Christ to to love and accept your fellow human being - look for the goodness instead of what's wrong. Don't let prejudice grow from your ignorance and fear.


Hello All!!

Im sorry but I TOTALLY disagree. I may be late on the issuse but I just HAVE to comment.  In my view, this statement, as well as a few others, is TOTALLY off the mark.

First from reading the original post I dont think they mentioned any thing about it being right or wrong to be gay. They just asked if you notice how many musicians directors  seemed to be homosexual or have feminine quailities.  And if the topic keeps coming up and the people who run the site dont delete it or lock why are we so quick to dismiss it as a stupid waste of time?  It doesnt  seem like they are saying things in a disrespectful manner. So why do we want to kill it? Are we offened because it might apply to us?

But CIMGUS to me, your statement could not be more confussing to me.  God does DOES NOT choose us to be gay. Im sorry if no one else agrees with that. MY GOD gives us ALL FREE WILL to live as we chose. We can either serve Him or not serve Him. Your parents may have a say in what race you are. God chooses you to be male of Female. After you come out you momma, the rest is up to you to determine. I do and did study things in school and I have heard all the arguements. And Im sorry but BEING GAY/LESBIAN IS A CHOICE.  You choose to live your life that way. And acording to the BIBLE its an not pleasing to GOD, as well as MANY OTHER THINGS.

I think I have written enough so I will cut it short. But the point is that it is very possible to have an opinion about something and not be "judging" someone as some of you put it. Especially since we have already gotten instruction as to what is correct and what is not--FROM THE BIBLE.

Dont hate them, dont talk negative about them, Do love them but dont accept what they do as being ok. IT IS NOT

Love the man not the action.
DCW

bwa_patat

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apologies to the group
« Reply #19 on: April 20, 2004, 08:09:25 AM »
Hello everybody
I would like to apologize for my previous posting. It was written in anger and forced others to react violently.
I wish I could take it back.
I will come back to this room when feel more peaceful.
Best regards
Jan
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