Tritones / Major chords

[keishon]

Jamal uses a lot of tritones over major chords in his music and this gives him a real contemporary sound. Could anyone explain how to use tritones over major chord... what tritone matches which major chord, and in what inversion etc.

God BLESS!![/move]

[diverse379]

hey you have your own answer contained in your title

its time you take what information you have get start exploring your board

try this exercise and use your ears to discover some sounds you like

Play a EBb tritone in your left hand against a cmajor triak in your right hand

move the tritone down in half steps while your right hand moves up in major chords in half steps

next move the left hand down chromatically while the right hand moves up in whole steps

try moving the left hand down in whole steps while the right hand moves in half steps

then do it while the right hand moves in whole steps

they almost all sound good it just depends on what context you are going to use them

I never even considered doing this until I saw your post

so get cracking Doc and use your ears to open up some sounds

Be Blessed

[jone7001]

Check out the hear and play zone at hearandplay.com and you should find what you are looking for in jermaine's teleclass.


May God Bless Ya Real Good!!!

[jone7001]

I found this in a post from joey247, so I decided I'd go ahead and send it to ya.



A'ight fellas,

So what I gather from what yall saying is, the tritone primarily depends on the Major 3rd / Minor 7th on the left hand but on the right hand I can basically slip in any chord as long as it sound right.

Would I be accurate in making that assumption, let me know, Thanks.

And by the way, when do I decide when and where to use a tritone substitution, or is that a matter of creativity and having a good ear? Theoretically, when am I suppoesd to use it, coz for example, I seen Jamaal Hartwell do this on the song "Praise is what I do"

In the key of Eb, at the "I vow to worship" part, he did

LH/RH    lyrics

Eb/ G-Bb-Eb         I
F/Ab-C-F              vow
G/Bb-Eb-G           to
AbEbAb/Bb-C-Eb-Gworship

                                    whether
G/G-B                  ha-
A/G-C                  ppy
B/G-D                  or
C/G-Bb-C-Eb         sad


Then Here Comes The Tritone

C#G/C-E-G-C         I
AbEb/G-Bb-C-Eb     Praise you



Now I've seen the same chord (C-E-G-C) used with an E-Bb left hand tritone, so does the left hand determine the tritone, while the right hand can basically slip in any chord as long as it sound right, or how did Jamaal decide to use that paticular tritone in that paticular part, what's the criteria you use to know where to place a tritone.

Thanks LGM,

T-Block, out there, Anyone out there, anyone??

[diverse379]

I will first give you the short answer

ALL that chord is is a G diminished going to the Ab and any diminished chord or Related diminished chord will sound good going to a major chord or its minor chord


I could also say that by lowering any tone of any diminished chord you will get a triad that is part of the family of that diminished as talked about in one of my threads

I could sit here and say well the C#G/ CEGC
going to that Ab Major 9 is really just a G diminished leading into the Ab

But to me that is an empty answer that only some will be able to walk away with

I feel like what I have written twice on this subject has gone either unnoticed or you feel that what I have said is wrong

but I will say it again any any any any major chord sounds good over any tritone

try it its just a mater of where you are going to
meaning what chord follows your new experiment



If you experiment on your own with chords and the various tritones you will find some that you like better then others and when you are coming up with progressions your ear will lead you to some of those sounds you have already played and have heard in your time at the instrument playing and exploring




But yall are not hearing me you are still looking for a magic formula
but All the  great teachers told me if you want to know how to chord on the piano you have to take the time playing chords on the piano

its just like with kung fu if you want a pretty spinning back kick once you learn the mechanics of the kick you have to do 100 spinning back kicks a day stretch one hour a day

and after you have thrown 2,000 spinning back kicks you will have a pretty spinning back kick

read Bruce Lee's book the "tao of jeet kune do"

repetition is the mother of all learning

training the attributes is essential

many of you will play a chord without truly listening to where each tone wants to go

you ask how did Jamal decide to go with that well first thing he did was make sure the melody was highlighted

the next thing he did was use a tool in his bag that he had already knew how to use

i gaurantee that if you ask Jamal did he spend time with the various combinations of tritones exploring which ones went where and which ones sound good going where
he would say yes you dont get that good by looking for someone to show you after you get a concept it is up to you to begin to explore the concept and make it yours

some of you need to trust in yourselves more
trust that you have what it takes to explore and come up with "show-me" that chords of your own creation

I am guilty of the same thing too but I realize now that there are only twelve notes on this keyboard and millions of combinations and the only way to unlock the potential of this instrument is to explore it.


Theory will only take you so far ( and those of you who have read my posts know that I love theory)

[diverse379]

I said I was done But I have to drop this theory on you I cant resist

The move

C# G/ CEGC
Ab Eb/ GBbCEb

can be looked at in two ways three ways actually lets look at them individually

As a 1-4 move
Eb to Ab

The C#(Db) is the 7th Of the Eb and the G is the Third of the Eb
The E in the right hand is a Flat nine

so you have a Eb6 b9 going to a Abmaj9

but you have the C#(Db)  How did he think of that??

I have my own way to get that; and I explain that in how to phatten your voicings instantly and this C#(Db) dim the basis of the family of sevenths iif you dont understand this thats ok the thread where this is explained is four pages long

an easier way to see why the C#(Db) is on the bottom is that on the organ this is done a lot because your foot pedals will usually play the bass notes

jazz pianist use these voicings when playing with a bass player because they dont want to duplicate the roots of the bass players   

and often they play the same rootless structures when they are playing solo

ok next

Look at it like a Gdim going to Ab

Rule 1 you can always precede any chord with a diminished a half step below

but this diminished is missing the Bb and is has a C


well many times people play only thee notes of a dim chord and as far as the presense of the c you can lower any tone of a dim chord a half step to achieve a new chord sound called a family chord
(There are four family chords for each diminished chord)

#3
It can be looked at as an A7  passing chord to the Ab

 Rule 2 Any dominant chord a half step above the chord you are going to can always be used as a passing chord  (major 7 chords also)

but usually you want to alter them in some way.

so you can play an A ^alt chord
A G/ C# F G C 

Now if you Lower the F you still have an alt chord but only one tone is altered instead of two

now what about the fact that A is not in the root
You can play any dominant major or minor chord from its root or its first inversion and they can be used interchangeably


What makes this particular C# (Db) bass going to the Ab is that it is a plagal cadence 4 - 1

church cadence

so we looked at this change 3 ways

as a rule of thumb for those of you who like the look and sound of these tritone bottom chords

play any 7th or major voicing and look for the third and or 7th and drop them or it an octave

this opens the chord up and gives more space and breathing room in the chord

I hope this has helped someone

God Bless you and Now I am done

[Joey247]

I Finally hear you Diverse, nice break down there. I think I'm beginning to get the hang of it now, It's just that I'm not much of a theory guy, but now I see I'm gonna need all the theory I can get.