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Author Topic: Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?  (Read 7094 times)

Offline JoashStilltheman

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« on: April 05, 2005, 08:32:52 AM »
Question: Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy or imitate non-christian songs; aren't they talented enough to produce original music?

For example:

Israel & New Breed's "Lord We Declare" sounds like Tupac Shakur's "California Love."
  :?:  :?:  :?:
Joash....still the man

Offline vwebster

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Let It Rain
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2005, 09:02:35 AM »
Good question. I like the song "Let it Rain" but it sounds a "just a wee bit" like a Prince song I remember from back in the day.

kadman92

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2005, 09:36:18 AM »
Is this thread even necessary?  Sheesh........  I wasn't born in the church man, I know what it was like in the world and what I've come from.  What's wrong with putting a familiar sound to Christian or Gospel music, how else do you expect to get the interrest of the unsaved?  Give me a break and come up with a real topic. 8O

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2005, 11:18:14 AM »
This is a very "touchy" subject as far as music AND ministry goes.  Now, what my take on it is just something that I've grown to realize.  I don't believe it's biblically based, but I feel that it will make a point that will not be offensive =o)

It is a known fact that music is one of the things besides math (and actually, that's all music is anyway) that is universal in this world.  Every musical entity on this planet uses the SAME NOTES when writing music.  The E flat that John P. Kee uses is the same one that D'Angelo uses, which is the same one that Trivis Tritt uses, which is the same one Mozart used, which is the same one...you get the idea.

Now, I believe creativity lies upon the individual musician.  Of course, you're gonna move the crowd a little bit when something familiar is played during a worship experience.  It's to the point now where you can't tell the difference between the secular stuff from the gospel stuff.  

But, there's one thing that will NEVER change.  The lyrics.

What makes R&B NOT GOSPEL?  Lyrics.

What makes rap NOT GOSPEL?  Lyrics.

And I consider ANYTHING that glorify the name of Jesus gospel.  So, if someone plays Beyonce's "Crazy in Love" during a song, then fine.  You have to admit, it's catchy.  As long as they don't break out the Jay-Z rap with it, then it's cool.

Gospel musicians have sense, and they know when to use bridges and when not to.

But, at the same time, a lot of "saints" out there feel that certain gospel music is not gospel and try to embarass individuals who have embraced contemporary gospel.  What's up wit dat?

Remember "Everything that has breath, Praise Ye The Lord."  If a heathen is breathing, then he's commanded to praise HIM.  If a liar is breathing, then she's commanded to praise HIM.  Anyone can praise him for the simple fact: EVERYONE IS COMMANDED TO DO SO.

Offline Dooley

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2005, 01:50:54 PM »
I just say this.  God created everything.  And the devil stole it from us, so we just take back everything the Devil stole from us.  lol  Just know when to do it and when not to
**From the desk of "Professor Terrence J. Dooley"

Offline chrisjr4

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2005, 03:25:27 PM »
I agree with you guys. Also, consider if the secular tune serves as a stumbling block to others. If someone can't focus on the (christian)lyrics to a song OR are continually thinking of the original words to the tune of the secular song being played.
I'm just saying we musicians can't have people thinking what they would do for their significant other "If this World Were Mine" (Luther Vandross and ... someone else  :roll: ) during prayer time lol.

Offline LorenzoS

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2005, 02:35:33 AM »
i agree with what has been said.....we as musicians have to know what to play, when to play it, if were led by the spirit,then we dont have anything to worry about.....
I think it was dooley who said, God created eevrything, the devil just stole it...and thats true indeed... we forefeited all when adam fell...but we get it all back since Jesus died and rose again....
and i agree with kadman, everyone that walks thru the doors of the church havent been saved all their lives...and to hear something that sounds familiar but with different words can make a person feel comfortable, after all the praise and worship service is really there to prepare the hearts and minds of the people to recieve the word of God anyway....and need i say more if an unsaved person hears some worldly chords that have gospel/christian lyrics? they're gonna be ready to see whats going to happen next in the service.....looks to me like the Lord is preparing them to recieve his word in HIS mysterious way....
We can go from Glory to Goofy in a matter of seconds, by not heeding HIS voice. M.G. Blankenship

Offline JoashStilltheman

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« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2005, 08:01:24 AM »
Okay my intention in initiating this question wasn't to offend anyone, so Kadman I'm sorry if you're offended. But I just thought it necessary that being Christian musicians and probably ministering in the church, we should be careful about such things. Personally, I don't mind Bishop Paul S. Morton's "Let it Rain" sounding like Prince's "purple rain." And I've seen this mentioned in a lot of reviews on this album. They all say it sounds like "purple rain." Well I do believe that Bishop Morton is an anointed man of God and therefore the song ministers because of the anointing. If it wasn't the fact that the song if offered to God then it would be no different from the secular song because the tune is the same. So what makes the music christian is the message-the lyrics, like someone said before.

However, we should also be sensitive about how it is viewed by both chrisitians and the non-christians. Remember how in the Bible, Apstl Paul talks about food offered to idols? He says he doesn't see anything wrong with it except that it may be a stumbling block to others. And he says, if the eating of food offered to idols causes a brother to stumble, then we shouldn't do it.  To me,  the danger of copying secular tunes is that you never know if it is "offered to idols." I believe you all understand that the devil also knows the power of music. Some of the music out there is designed to captivate and ensnare the listener. I'm sure none of you would attempt to play anything similar to Ozzy Osbourne.; and I have my doubts about Prince too.

Another thing is; if "God created everything and the devil just stole it", then the devil should steal our tunes right? I've heard some christian music playing on secular stations. why? because they can't resist it.There are a lot of non-christians who know who Kirk Franklin is yet Kirk doesn't play 50 cent. But if he ever does, it wouldn't be because of that. While it is true that you can reach to unsaved people through a familiar song, it also doesn't have to be that way. People can get touched just by listening to the old-fashioned style of Amazing grace.  I've seen lots of youngsters get saved at Benny Hinn's crusades yet his music is not even funky. As a matter of fact, it could be boring to some people, doesn't matter just as long as it is anointed. Therefore style of music doesn't matter, what is important is the power of God behind it.

So I think the bottomline is that you can play whatever you want just be careful it doesn't become a stumbling block.

If anyone else has their own views , please we would like to hear them. Remember, don't offend anyone but just let your voice be heard.
Joash....still the man

Offline DbKeysinCT

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playing
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2005, 08:04:34 AM »
as long as god is invovled it shouldn't be a problem, a local COGIC church did gospel version of snoop doggs song"drop it like it's " 'cept they were when the devils tryna get atya drop him like it hot

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2005, 08:41:48 AM »
SIDE BAR--"Let It Rain" sounds like "Purple Rain"????  I thought it sounded like the old intro on HBO before they started a movie =o)

Offline JoashStilltheman

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Maybe HBO....
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2005, 09:28:37 AM »
Check out these reviews:

 “Let It Rain,” headed by Bishop Paul Morton and the Full Gospel Baptist Convention Fellowship Mass Choir. A very traditional presentation of songs and voices, this is a disc truly seeped in Baptist values and basics. Ironically, the title track, led by Morton, incorporates the vamp from Prince’s “Purple Rain,” for the last several minutes of the song.

See what the world thinks of it??

http://www.manhunt.com/reviews/html/1108091667.html



Reviewer: Kentay the Great -
Okay..maybe I'm just a little bit biased, because I am apart of the Full Gospel Baptist Church Fellowship, and Bishop Morton is my bishop...plus some of my church members were a part of the choir when this was recorded, but this CD really brings you into the presence of God. And yes, Prince gets credit for "Let it Rain." but that's not what's important...what's important is that God's word got out, and helped us to understand "the rain." Needless to say, I have the DVD and I watch it at least once a week. My favorite song is "Because of who You Are." That song does it for me. You'll also loooooove FGBCF's version of Lauren Hill's "On That Day." AWESOME WORD!!!!! It deserves more than 5 stars!!!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000A4GDO/102-4301257-5388158?v=glance

July 2003 – LET IT RAIN, Bishop Paul Morton’s first project on Tehillah/Light Records, offer 11 tacks where Morton pulls out all the stops.  With over 300 voices, the FGBCG Mass Choir gives 100% with songs such as “Going Home” (a rendition of Prince’s ‘Purple Rain’) and “Let it Rain”, made popular by Michael W. Smith.

http://www.compendiamedia.com/xml/press/whattheyaresayingbishopmorton.htm
Joash....still the man

Offline vwebster

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I think its a good topic.
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2005, 09:47:44 AM »
I like the "Let it Rain" song by Paul S. Morton. It's just that I can't help but smile, when he gets to that part. Its one of those songs you can close your eyes on and just experience...

As for the topic of secular vs. Christian music, I think it was a great topic and a worthy topic. As time progresses in some things, Christ seems to get moved out of the picture in some areas. For instance, there had to be a time, when people were a lot more offended at XMAS, than they appear to be now. I think some changes are slight and subtle. So, perhaps the post was just to get us thinking.

My pastor often advises that he would prefer that our youth choir does not do the "Baptist Boogie". But, we do attempt to have a slightly different variety of songs for the youth choir as opposed to the adult choir. When we pick a song, we want it to glorify God. We want everyone to know why we're singing it, and we're also thinking of our audience, even the little ladies in white down front, who help keep us in check.  :D

There are songs we're more likely to prepare for Choir concerts, than worship service... more because of our audience than my personal feeling about the songs.

It's a very worthy topic. Keep posting...

Offline T-Block

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2005, 10:17:08 AM »
Look guys and girls, MUSIC is MUSIC.  Music is not gospel, pop, rock, rap, hip-hop, R&B, blues, jazz, etc.  What makes it any one of these categories is the lyrics.  Plain and simple.  Before anyone ever hears the words of a song on the radio, on the CD, or in the studio, it is always the music that speaks first.  So, let's just keep it at that.  Half the older saints in the church won't know what u playing anyway.  All people know is it got a good beat and it moves them to praise and worship God.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline quetell

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2005, 11:22:29 AM »
I believe if something you play, sing or do will hinder others from coming to Christ then you should not do it. Using secular songs is not something that we have to do its just something that we want to do.
 Peace!

Offline JoashStilltheman

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4 Tblock
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2005, 06:28:20 AM »
Okay T-block I agree with what you're saying but you didn't quite answer the question. Yeah it's true christian music is of different types. It could be rap, jazz, RnB, e.t.c  and what makes the music christian is the lyrics not the type of music. Okay the question is, for example, if you take the beat Michael Jackson song "who's bad" and simply change the lyrics to something like...."who's great...God's great", will that automatically convert it into a christian song? Basing this on your argument, I guess it will. But if I originally came up with that beat...then that's something different. But taking an existing song and changing the lyrics....that's where the heart of the question is. What u say T=Block??
Thanks and keep posting :)
Joash....still the man

Offline ddw4e

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2005, 07:19:35 AM »
All I got to say is...Music IS Music...just how it influence other people...as Stone Cold Steve Austin says "That's all I have to say about that" :lol:  :lol:
MERCY EN!!

Offline JoashStilltheman

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2005, 08:07:29 AM »
Coz Stone cold said so?
Joash....still the man

Offline JoashStilltheman

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 08:14:03 AM »
So why not play some piano man, Billy Joel :) After all, music is music.
Joash....still the man

Offline T-Block

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Is it right for Gospel musicians to copy secualar tunes?
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 10:00:55 AM »
Alright man, I understand the question now.  If you take a "secular" song and change the words then technically it is now a "gospel" song cuz the lyrics are now speaking about the gospel.  The music by itself is just music.  For example the song "Love" by Musiq.  Some gospel artist changed the words around and instead of "Love" they say "Lord".  The music didn't change not one chord, just the words.    

Now, you have to be careful not to get in trouble with copyright laws and stuff cuz people get real crazy about they music.  Also, even if you change the words to a song to make it "gospel", people who heard the original will still think about the original song and lyrics cuz that is what they remember.  If you can get away with making it into a "gospel" song then that's good.  

I hope that answers your question now.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline JoashStilltheman

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gettin there
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 08:33:45 PM »
Okay T-Block, you almost answered it. The question is  not whether or not you can get away with making it a gospel song but rather it is whether or not you should do it??:)
Joash....still the man
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