Approaches To Chording A Song

[Eggs]

Hi,

I am curious.  For those who have been chording for the rest of us:
Do you take the same approach that Jermaine Griggs uses?  Do you select the key, figure out the melody and neighboring/passing tones, add the basic triads, and then substitutions?

Or do you do it another way (perhaps like Sam Tolbert following the choir parts first?)


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

[B3Wannabe]

neither

I'm a concept player. I listen to the pattern then play chords with it. Most of the time they're normal chords, sometimes they're disonant. One thing I'm constantly learning is that you can play almost any chord with any key. It depends on the feel of the song and where you want to go.

[sbinf]

Agreeing with the above poster; it's much easier to visualize chords if we realize that most music is harmonically similar. That is, most popular songs in western music follow very similar progressions. If you can perceive these progressions by seeing as notes and relative spaces on the keyboard and hearing them, learning music by ear becomes vastly less complicated.
As an exercise, take any song, and sit with it at a piano. Listen to the song, and try and figure out where the bass line is going. You'll notice a lot of the same harmonic movement, V-I, IV-I, and so on. If you take the time to learn not just a song, but basic movement of chords, I think you'll find 'chording' songs much easier.
There's no easy way to arrive at this destination. I would suggest practicing some basic progressions in ALL keys. Work through the circle of 5ths first, and then their first and second inversions. The dominant 7th (V7) and it's three inversions are also invaluable. I think if you take a slow approach like this, you'll find in time that you can play songs much more easily even though you are conceivably spending less time learning specific music.
As a whole, we seem to be pretty anti-music theory around here, but spending a little time learning about cadences, resolutions, suspensions, leading tones, and the like will be invaluable to you in learning to chord songs and play by ear.

Hope this helps

[JoyCH]

This is a good question and great responses. With theory you can pretty much figure out the pattern. 1-4-5 or 2-5-1 whatever. These are no. for letters in scale.

For example:  C  D  E  F  G  A  B  C
                      1  2  3  4  5  6  7   8

You can also figure out the melody of a song just playing one note with one finger then add two fingers than another. This is what I learned as a child. You could use the one note melody as your bass.

Just my opinion. Always write down your chords and their names. Once you keep hearing it you will remember how you used it before. And you always have your opinion to invert or diminish or augment a chord like you see on Jermaine's tape.

Joy

[Eggs]

So,

What you're saying is that when you listen to a contemporary gospel tune,
you can pick out the 2-5-1's and the 1-4's or 3-6-2's as you listen?

And practicing these progressions using all types of chords in various keys, and the circle of fourths will help me get to this point?

Is that right?

Welp...

I have been practicing this way basically for about 2 weeks now... ever since I discovered stacked or superimposed chords.  And I must say that in doing this, I have had to stop on several occasions and say "hey, that is from such and such a song".  I mean, I've stumbling onto "stuff" from music that I've heard.  So I can truly say that this sounds like great advice to me!

Thanks!
God bless,
Eggs

[JoyCH]

Go Egg, Go Egg - its not your birthday - but Go Egg! Proud of you.  :lol:

Joy

[aljeres]

I KNOW ALL THE CHORDS TO A NOTE THAT CAN BE POSSIBLY BUILT.......SOOOOOO I FIGURE SONGS OUT FROM THE LEFT TO THE RIGHT................IN FACT, IT IS HOW I FEEL IT IS TO BE..........BUT THAT'S ME........I FEEL IT'S ALL IN THE LEFT!........AS LONG AS I CAN HEAR THE BASS, I CAN FIGURE ANYTHING OUT I WANT!.....

ASIDE FROM THAT.....YES, THEIR ARE DEFINITE PATTERNS........BUT; I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE PLAYING THE PATTERNS, BUT NOT REALLY COVERING THE PROPER VOICINGS IN THE RIGHT HAND AS SHOULD BE PLAYED.......THUS PLAYING WHAT I CALL, GARBAGE.......AND ALL BECAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY TO REALLY PUT THE TIME IN, TO BE ABLE TO PLAY EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE HEARING.......PEOPLE TEND TO PLAY WHAT THEY KNOW AS APOSED TO WHAT THEY REALLY HEAR, AND ALL THE WHILE KNOWING THEY ARE INCORRECT!....I WOULDNT BE ABLE TO SLEEP......THEIR IS INDEED A RIGHTWAY TO EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

[Eggs]

Thanks Joy!

Gieres and others,


Thanks for the help, I will use all of your advice... but what do you do when you have a piece that just has a bass and some filler keys.... and lets say you want to solo (just piano) this music with your choir?

Do you follow the melody, or do you come up with your own accompaniment?


Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

[sjonathan02]

Eggs, I just want to say that you have been such an inspiration to me (in terms of trying to improve my piano skills), and all of the advice on this site has been incredible.

Now, Algeres (please forgive me if I misspelled) with regards to the  voicings, isn't it imperative that the melody note be on top at ALL times?

Thanks, in advance

sjonathan02

[Eggs]

sjonathan02,

I'm so glad to hear that God has inspired you through me, because He knows that my greatest desire is to be used by Him, in anyway He sees fit.

To God be the glory, great things He has done!

For all of you:

What can I do to improve my ear, other than practicing progressions in all the keys, and the circle of fourths?  I have Jermaine Griggs player tool.  Are there any other good tools available as freeware?

Thanks,
God bless,
Eggs

[B3Wannabe]

There are a lot of tools out there. I don't use any of them though. I just listen to music that I like. I practice humming the basslines and chords. (Yes. I know it sounds weird, just imagine me doing it.) This helps me get the sound in my head, so when I need to use it, I can remember how it was used before. This give me something to work with. If you're talking about getting perfect pitch (being able to pick out notes automatically in your head) then you may want to do something a little more structured. If you're talking about being able to pick out chords faster after you've listened to it then you may want to do my options. It envolves a lot of hard work and a good finger with the endurance it'll need to repeatedly press the rewind button.

[aljeres]

Eggs, I just want to say that you have been such an inspiration to me (in terms of trying to improve my piano skills), and all of the advice on this site has been incredible.

Now, Algeres (please forgive me if I misspelled) with regards to the  voicings, isn't it imperative that the melody note be on top at ALL times?

Thanks, in advance

sjonathan02

thanks for you question, and the answer to your question is no!.... remember, someone started this question and used the word appraoch or approaches......

so with at in mind; i shared an approach......that cannot really be argued with......there are several approaches.......as you've read from the other posts....but now no this one fact!......

THERE ARE ONLY CERTAIN CHORDS, AND SCALE RUNS FOR A PATICULAR NOTE, WETHER YOU PLAY THE NOTE IN THE LEFTHAND OR RIGHT HAND.....I CAN PLAY ATLEAST TWENTY DIFFERENT CHORDS IN MY RIGHTHAND, WITH ONE SINGLE BASS NOTE! THIS IS A FACT, AND THEIR ARE MORE......

ANOTHER FACT.......THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO PLAY BASICALLY!

1) WITH THE MELODY
2)  AROUND THE MELODY....

I GAVE YOU THE AROUND THE MELODY APPROACH......

NOW HEARS THE THEORY;  IT IS NOT NEEDED FOR YOU TO PLAY THE MELODY AT THE TOP OF THE CHORD, WHEN THERE IS A VOCOLIST IN THE PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!

THIS OCCURES;

1)  WHEN YOU HAVE ONE PERSON SINGING A SOLO
2) WHEN YOU HAVE A CHIOR SINGING, AND ONE OF THE VOICES (SAPRANOS) IS SINGING THE MELODY.....

SO YOU HAVE TO BE ABLE TO VOICE THE PROPER CHORDS, THAT WILL EMBELLISH THE VOCALS.......OR ELSE WHY PLAY! REMEMBER, IT'S NOT ABOUT US! IT'S ABOUT THE VOCALS......WHEN I LISTEN TO A CHIOR, I LOVE THE MUSIC, EVEN WHEN I HEAR A SOLOIST, I LOVE THE MUSIC, BUT! AND IT'S A BIG BUT!, WHAT IS THE SENSE IN THE MUSIC COVERING EXACTLY WHAT THE VOCALIST IS ALREADY SINGING?

WE HAVE TO KNOW OUR PLACE AS A MUSICIAN, " WE ASSISIT"  WE "COVER" THE BED......BUT WE ARENT THE BED!....WE CAN BE THE 'BED" TO THE VOCALIST.......BUT IT WILL BE THE VOCALIST, USEING THE BED TO " REST " IN....SOS  TO GET READY FOR THE NEXT SONG! LOL.... AND UNLESS YOU TRULLY UNDERSTAND THIS, YOUR ACTUALLY TAKING AWAY FROM THE PERFORMER, AND BRINGING ATTENTION TO YOU!..........I KNOW MY PLACE!

SO I TRULLY HOPE THIS WAS ABLE TO HELP YOU......

[sjonathan02]

Gieres,

I LOVE the metaphors!! I'm going to have to use that when I speak with my musician next time (he's always drowning out the choir or even the other keyboardist {on the rare occasion we have one}. So, I thank you for that.

Also, if I'm understanding you fully, I really only need to have the melody note on top (as an option) when I am playing during a transition of the service (i.e. prayer). Is that right? I'm learning so much!! Thanks, again, all of you.


Jonathan

[Gina3]

What's the melody note?
 

Is that what the sopranos sing?

I am not clear on that

[sjonathan02]

yes Gina, The Sopranos usually sing the melody note (or melody). Sorry if I confused you; I simply meant playing the melody on top when there isn't a singer or choir.


Later
Jonathan

[lamurud]

I cannot disagree that a lot of work has to be put into this thing called keyboard (piano) playing. However, let's stop for a moment. No matter how beautiful or inspired your playing is, it is still an ACCOMPANIMENT.
In other words, it is still supposed to accompany the human voice, a gift from God. An accompaniment, is not supposed to be the main focus. It is  daunting or near-impossible task to try to play all the notes, pitches, range of a singing voice.  Let us just see ourselves as "students" of the keyboard who are helping to bring out the glory of God by accompanying praise and worship. Only God sees the human heart. God may rather want to hear someone who is sincere even when their playing may not be all that accomplished.

On the other hand, if anyone wanted their virtuosity on the keyboard to be the main focus of a musical experience, perhaps a channel like classical music should be their outlet. Remember Beethoven and others have "been there" and "done that."
Cheers.

Lamurud

I KNOW ALL THE CHORDS TO A NOTE THAT CAN BE POSSIBLY BUILT.......SOOOOOO I FIGURE SONGS OUT FROM THE LEFT TO THE RIGHT................IN FACT, IT IS HOW I FEEL IT IS TO BE..........BUT THAT'S ME........I FEEL IT'S ALL IN THE LEFT!........AS LONG AS I CAN HEAR THE BASS, I CAN FIGURE ANYTHING OUT I WANT!.....

ASIDE FROM THAT.....YES, THEIR ARE DEFINITE PATTERNS........BUT; I HEAR A LOT OF PEOPLE PLAYING THE PATTERNS, BUT NOT REALLY COVERING THE PROPER VOICINGS IN THE RIGHT HAND AS SHOULD BE PLAYED.......THUS PLAYING WHAT I CALL, GARBAGE.......AND ALL BECAUSE THEY ARE TO LAZY TO REALLY PUT THE TIME IN, TO BE ABLE TO PLAY EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE HEARING.......PEOPLE TEND TO PLAY WHAT THEY KNOW AS APOSED TO WHAT THEY REALLY HEAR, AND ALL THE WHILE KNOWING THEY ARE INCORRECT!....I WOULDNT BE ABLE TO SLEEP......THEIR IS INDEED A RIGHTWAY TO EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!

[Eggs]

lamurud,

You might want to take a look at the discussion we've been having on this site with regard to gospel instrumentals, in the gospel lounge I believe... but don't hold me to that.

Search "gospel instrumental" in the subject.

God bless,
eggs

[B3Wannabe]

I cannot disagree that a lot of work has to be put into this thing called keyboard (piano) playing. However, let's stop for a moment. No matter how beautiful or inspired your playing is, it is still an ACCOMPANIMENT.
In other words, it is still supposed to accompany the human voice, a gift from God. An accompaniment, is not supposed to be the main focus. It is  daunting or near-impossible task to try to play all the notes, pitches, range of a singing voice.  Let us just see ourselves as "students" of the keyboard who are helping to bring out the glory of God by accompanying praise and worship. Only God sees the human heart. God may rather want to hear someone who is sincere even when their playing may not be all that accomplished.

On the other hand, if anyone wanted their virtuosity on the keyboard to be the main focus of a musical experience, perhaps a channel like classical music should be their outlet. Remember Beethoven and others have "been there" and "done that."
Cheers.

Lamurud

You're wrong. When there are vocalist, they become part of the band as any musician does. They accompany the music as well as the music accompanies them. The thing that gets some people into trouble is that they try to compete with the vocalist or the vocalist sometimes don't give musicians room to play (by singing really bad or off key). Listen to some of the jazz artists out there. When there are vocalists, they sing some, take a break and let the music play, and it all sounds like it's working together. This is true accompaniment. I know, though, in some circumstances, it tends to lean toward the music accompanying the vocalists moreso than the other way around. It just takes the whole band (again the vocalists included) to work out how this should be done. Music is also a gift from God.  :wink:

[aljeres]

Gieres,

I LOVE the metaphors!! I'm going to have to use that when I speak with my musician next time (he's always drowning out the choir or even the other keyboardist {on the rare occasion we have one}. So, I thank you for that.

Also, if I'm understanding you fully, I really only need to have the melody note on top (as an option) when I am playing during a transition of the service (i.e. prayer). Is that right? I'm learning so much!! Thanks, again, all of you.


Jonathan

yes, and any time noone is singing the melody, is a cool time to play the melody!

[aljeres]

I cannot disagree that a lot of work has to be put into this thing called keyboard (piano) playing. However, let's stop for a moment. No matter how beautiful or inspired your playing is, it is still an ACCOMPANIMENT.
In other words, it is still supposed to accompany the human voice, a gift from God. An accompaniment, is not supposed to be the main focus. It is  daunting or near-impossible task to try to play all the notes, pitches, range of a singing voice.  Let us just see ourselves as "students" of the keyboard who are helping to bring out the glory of God by accompanying praise and worship. Only God sees the human heart. God may rather want to hear someone who is sincere even when their playing may not be all that accomplished.

On the other hand, if anyone wanted their virtuosity on the keyboard to be the main focus of a musical experience, perhaps a channel like classical music should be their outlet. Remember Beethoven and others have "been there" and "done that."
Cheers.

Lamurud

You're wrong. When there are vocalist, they become part of the band as any musician does. They accompany the music as well as the music accompanies them. The thing that gets some people into trouble is that they try to compete with the vocalist or the vocalist sometimes don't give musicians room to play (by singing really bad or off key). Listen to some of the jazz artists out there. When there are vocalists, they sing some, take a break and let the music play, and it all sounds like it's working together. This is true accompaniment. I know, though, in some circumstances, it tends to lean toward the music accompanying the vocalists moreso than the other way around. It just takes the whole band (again the vocalists included) to work out how this should be done. Music is also a gift from God.  :wink:

now that's the true definition of a band, now how many people really look at it like that!.............now that's together musicians,.....