Question???????

[rayjohnson83]

Whats good fam. I got a question for my theory peeps. Is there a such thing as a minor 7-3-6-2-5-1 progression? And could you explain it for me.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

[musallio]

I should've known that U'r sick like me
This is 1 of the questions that passes my mind.

But before i utter anything, let me go & test to c if the theory can work.

[rayjohnson83]

I should've known that U'r sick like me
This is 1 of the questions that passes my mind.

But before i utter anything, let me go & test to c if the theory can work.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you find out, let me know.

[musallio]

Hey, w8 a sec..
I think there actually could be something here:

the 7-3-6-2-5-1 will always be a rotation of 4ths whether U look at it from a major or minor perspective.so there is nothing much 1 can do to change the major feel in the LH.

so the focus would now have to shift from the LH, to the chords played in the RH..If the correct combination of chords is played there, then the progression should work..i think.
The question will then be, can this progression be applied anywhere

This is what the LH would look like:

Say Eb minor:

Eb=1; F=2; Gb=3; Ab=4; Bb=5; Cb=6; Db=7

so the LH would be:
Db/?some Major chord
Gb/?some Major Chord
Cb/?some Major chord
F/? some diminished/ dominant chord
Bb/? minor / altered chord
Eb/?minor/ altered chord

or say E minor (for the white keys lovers):
E=1; F#=2; G=3; A=4; B=5; C=6; D=7

So the LH chords would be:

D/?some Major chord
G/?some Major Chord
C/?some Major chord
F#/? some diminished/ dominant chord
B/? minor / altered chord
E/?minor/ altered chord

Ok, i should go & test this theory

[musallio]

Hey, w8 a sec..
I think there actually could be something here:

the 7-3-6-2-5-1 will always be a rotation of 4ths whether U look at it from a major or minor perspective.so there is nothing much 1 can do to change the major feel in the LH.

so the focus would now have to shift from the LH, to the chords played in the RH..If the correct combination of chords is played there, then the progression should work..i think.
The question will then be, can this progression be applied anywhere

This is what the LH would look like:

Say Eb minor:

Eb=1; F=2; Gb=3; Ab=4; Bb=5; Cb=6; Db=7

so the LH would be:
Db/?some Major chord
Gb/?some Major Chord
Cb/?some Major chord
F/? some diminished/ dominant chord
Bb/? minor / altered chord
Eb/?minor/ altered chord

or say E minor (for the white keys lovers):
E=1; F#=2; G=3; A=4; B=5; C=6; D=7

So the LH chords would be:

D/?some Major chord
G/?some Major Chord
C/?some Major chord
F#/? some diminished/ dominant chord
B/? minor / altered chord
E/?minor/ altered chord

Ok, i should go & test this theory

Ok, that was me just trying to apply the minor scale or Aeolian mode also known as the natural minor.
How about trying the Dorian mode chords:

This is what the LH would look like:

Say Eb minor:

Eb=1; F=2; Gb=3; Ab=4; Bb=5; Cb=6; Db=7

so the LH would be:
Db/?some Major chord
Gb/?some Major Chord
Cb/?some diminished/ dominant chord
F/? minor chord
Bb/? minor / altered chord
Eb/?minor/ altered chord

or say E minor (for the white keys lovers):
E=1; F#=2; G=3; A=4; B=5; C=6; D=7

So the LH chords would be:

D/?some Major chord
G/?some Major Chord
C/?some diminished/ dominant chord
F#/? minor chord
B/? minor / altered chord
E/?minor/ altered chord

Ok, i should go & test this theory once & 4 all now:-\

[T-Block]

Whats good fam. I got a question for my theory peeps. Is there a such thing as a minor 7-3-6-2-5-1 progression? And could you explain it for me.

THANKS IN ADVANCE

Simply put, the answer is NO.  Progessions are based on the major scale.  So, if it is any kind of progression at all, it is named based off the major scale.  Now, there can be progressions that use minor chords as main chords, but to call it a minor progression would be incorrect.

[musallio]

Simply put, the answer is NO.  Progessions are based on the major scale.  So, if it is any kind of progression at all, it is named based off the major scale.  Now, there can be progressions that use minor chords as main chords, but to call it a minor progression would be incorrect.

PURR-FECT answer..
bcos there is nothing minor about the 7-3-6---it's always major on the LH...But I'm trying out the combinations there 2 c what I'll come up with.

[rayjohnson83]

ok, Im lost

[musallio]

ok, Im lost

Where are we losing you?
When we say that the LH is formed of the major scale, regardless of the scale U'r in?

if so, then here is the explanation:

if 1 is in the major scale of any key, there exists a progression which will work in such a way that it will flow smoothly in a song, & the interval between each note happens to be the 4th of the previous note.

So what we are really looking for, is the equivalent of a 7-3-6-2-5-1 in a minor key: a progression that will create a similar flow in the music but with a minor feel to it

I think we might very well be on our way to finding that

[musallio]

Nonetheless, i've gone to do my homework,& tried to apply the rules I stated above.
This is what I've come up with to create a minor feel for now:

Key of Eb minor [Gb major pattern]

[7] Db/ Cb-Eb-Gb-Bb-Cb
[3] Gb/Bb-Db-F-Ab
[6] Cb/ Ab-Db-Gb-Bb
[2] F/Cb-D-Gb-Ab
[5] Bb/Ab-Cb-Eb-F (or Gb)
[1] Eb/ Bb-Db-F-Gb

Key of E minor [G major pattern]

[7] D/ C-E-G-B-C
[3] G/B-D-F#-A
[6] C/ A-D-G-B
[2] F#/C-D#-G-A
[5] B/A-C-E-F# (or G)
[1] E/ B-D-F#-G

[musallio]

Ok, I'd like to revise my agreement with U T-Block..

RayJohnson asked if a minor 7-3-6-2-5-1 pattern could be formed.
U said simply put, no!!

But if we actually examine the prgression I've just come up with, it strictly derived from the minor scale, NOT the major scale:

Here lies my argument:

for instance, in the Gb major pattern, how can I get the Db as my 7 & the Eb to be the 1?
Is it not true that in the major scale pattern the 7 & the 1 will be a half step apart (as opposed to a whole )

All I simply did was to find a minor scale & identified the 7,3,6,2,5, &1 of that minor scale (without ever paying any consideration to the major scale.)


If we look @ this pattern relative to the major scale, then :

key of GbM

Eb=6; F=7; Gb=1; Ab=2; Bb=3; Cb=4; Db=5

key of GM

E=6; F#=7; G=1; A=2; B=3; C=4; D=5



hence, what is a 7-3-6-2-5-1 in the minor scale is a 5-1-4-7-3-6 in the major scale

Therefore, i conclude:

YES,U can have a minor 7-3-6-2-5-1 pattern, it is congruent to the 5-1-4-7-3-6 pattern of the major scale

Any disagreements out there?

[musallio]

Another argument that invalidates your answer T-Block:

in the past, U have posted minor progressions such a the 1-4-5 etc.

Argument: How come is it that we can have a minor 1-4-5 progression but not a 7-3-6-2-5-1.
               Surely if we can have a 1-4-5, then we can have any other progression, so long as we derive that progression using the minor scale & adding chords that fit there
The mere fact that it is not a popular progression does not invalidate its existence/ utility.

Ok, I know my point is loud and clear now.

I really need a strong argument to convince me 2 sway from my view.

[musallio]

Another argument that invalidates your answer T-Block:

In the normal/ major scale 7-3-6-2-5-1, one can normally sub the "2" with a "b6 /#5", but in this particular pattern, there is no doing that because the "6 & the 5" in the minor pattern are only a half step apart, unlike the major scale pattern.

[However, what we could do in this minor pattern is to :

> sub the "3" with a "b7" & /or the "5" with a "b2". <also applicable in the major pattern>]

[musallio]

Ok, i ought to practice what I preach, so I'll put this progression in the numbers.
The numbers are relative to the major scale so that they are not confusing to anyone!!!

7-3-6-2-5-1 minor pattern progression:

key: Universal

• [/b]
  
  5/ 4-6-1-3-4
  1/ 3-5-7-2
  4/ 2-5-1-3
  7/ 4-#5-1-2
  3/ 2-4-6-7 or 1
  6/ 3-5-7-1
  
  ok,I'm feeling generous enough to do the pattern for those who love the A minor pattern & C minor pattern:
  
  A minor progression [C major congruent]
  
  G/ F-A-C-E-F
  C/E-G-B-D
  F/D-G-C-E
  B/F-Gb-C-D
  E/D-F-A-B or C
  A/ E-G-B-C
  
  C minor progression
  
  Bb/ Ab-C-Eb-G-Ab
  Eb/ G-Bb-D-F
  Ab/ F-Bb-Eb-G
  D/ Ab-B-Eb-F
  G/ F-Ab-C-D or Eb
  C/ G-Bb-D-Eb
  
  ok, U can figure the rest for yourself.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

[B3Wannabe]

Simply put, the answer is NO.  Progessions are based on the major scale.  So, if it is any kind of progression at all, it is named based off the major scale.  Now, there can be progressions that use minor chords as main chords, but to call it a minor progression would be incorrect.

Actually....

Progressions are based on the key or scale mode you're playing in. If you're in Eb minor (aeolian), then your tonic chord would be minor, not major; therefore, your tonic chord is annotated as "i" not "vi" or "I".

Part of the misinterpretation comes when progressions are notated with Arabic numbers "1,2,3,4,5" versus Roman numerals "I, ii, iii, IV, V". The case of the Roman numerals tell the function of the chord and the position of the chord in the root key (mode).  It doesn't matter what mode you're playing in.

I know this link isn't authoritative, but this is the clearest one I could find.

http://www.thecipher.com/chord-progressions-minor.html

I had a book with this stuff in it about 10 years ago. I can't remember the title.

Here is another explanation:
http://guitarblog.torvund.net/2007/11/06/some-questions-about-chord-progressions/

I made this post a couple months ago. In it, I stated to think of a minor progression as major. I only do it for functionality. It makes it easier to visualize my progressions. When I'm playing in a minor mode, I think of its related major, but I remember to accentuate the feel of the mode I'm playing in so it sounds true.

"Bow Down" by Bishop Morton, which is one of the songs I love sounds minor, but it's major. Lydian mode.

[T-Block]

Hmmmm.....yall have some interesting arguments here, LOL.  If I were to believe yall, I would probably go along the lines of what B3 is saying.  Let me think about this and I'll comment later.

[BroAllan]

Hmmmm, This is getting very, very interesting ...

Aeolian, as opposed to Dorian or Lydian mode...
Arabic, instead of Roman numerals ...
Major tonic, versus minor tonic chords ...

If I didn't know better, I'd think U guys were speaking another language ... (which U are of course!)

Keep it coming gang, and BTW, Good question Ray! 

[musallio]

Thanx 4 the input B3,

I have to agree with what U said
thanx 4 the links as well

[T-Block]

O.K., I've thought about this a little more and I have played through the chords u posted musallio, and I'll say this a leave it alone for now maybe, LOL .

Disclaimer: The views and opinions of T-Block are his own.  You may or may not agree with them, LOL.     

While there technically may be a minor 7-3-6-2-5-1 progression (or any other), the problem I have with it is my ear will still tell me i'm in the relative major key.  You'd have to borrow (a lot of) notes from the harmonic & melodic minor scales and other modes in order to pull off that sound and musically be in the minor key.

This is why I said there are no minor progressions because you can't really do a lot of movement and still sound in the minor key (I'm not talking about repeating a few chords, I mean throwing in all the tricks and runs). You gotta be more restrictive with your chord selection. 

I still believe you can have a progression wit minor chords, but is it really a minor progression?  Chew on dat ? for a minute.

I'll stick by my answer and we can all agree to disagree on this particular subject.  Cool?

Hmmmm, This is getting very, very interesting ...

Ya think?  LOL.

[B3Wannabe]

I can kind of understand what you're saying. As I said before, when I play minor I think of the related major key, but my mind still knows I'm playing minor. Also, as you stated, sometimes I'll change a chord, so instead of playing a m7, I'll play a dom7 before going back to a minor tonic. It makes the minor stand out, because it sounds "wrong".

But, you still can't say there are no minor progressions. It likes saying there are no dim7 chords, calling them dim6. It's just wrong.

....I know what you're saying about the ear part though. Some songs, like "Bow Down", can sound strongly Ionian, if you're not used to the sound of the other modes. When I listen to a song that has a weird melody, it's usually an indicator to me that the song is not Ionian, so I examine the progression and melody to see what mode it is and memorize the sound, then I can recognize it later...especially James Hall stuff!

I didn't start doing this until about two years ago though. That's when my ear kind of opened up to this stuff.