Chord Challenge: What is this Chord?

[DaNatiMaestro]

Hey fam,

I was watching the Cassandrea O'neal DVD and she used the following chord as a passing chord to the 3 (G minor) in key of Eb:

AbF/BEbG

I can't classify this chord for the life of me.. it sounds like its some kind of diminished chord..

The whole move was this..

AbF/BEbG,Ab
GF/BbDFBb

which is a hot move but in order to effectively add it to my toolbox I need to be able to identify this chords so... here are my thoughts on this chord...

as i said above it is some kind of diminished chord.. the thing that is throwing me off is the fact that the FB tritone is in there and typically your bottom or bass note is G or Db but G is the note that you're resolving to..

a normal Ab dim is Ab-B-D-F
if you add a Maj 7 to this you get Ab-B-D-F-G then
if you sharp the 5 of the diminished chord you get Ab-B-D#(Eb)-F-G

if you re-arrange the notes you get AbF/BEbG

so would you call this chord an Ab dim M7 (#5)???

T-Block, B3, Darkwing, MM, others.... Let me know you're thoughts! 

This is a nice passing chord I just wanna know what the heck it is.. LOL

[sjonathan02]

What about an Fm9(b5) in 1st inversion?

[darkwing]

I see a tritone in there - F, B.

I would call it either a Db7(b5) or a G7(#5,b9).  The only thing that's missing is a root to define which on it is.  I would go with Db7(b5).

It's like a twisted, stretched tritone substitution on the Gm7 (a true tritone substitution would be for a G7).

[DaNatiMaestro]

I see a tritone in there - F, B.

I would call it either a Db7(b5) or a G7(#5,b9).  The only thing that's missing is a root to define which on it is.  I would go with Db7(b5).

It's like a twisted, stretched tritone substitution on the Gm7 (a true tritone substitution would be for a G7).

Man, that's why I love LGM.. folks are willing to help one another!!

I'm kinda feeling this explanation..

It weird in the context of the song which was Give Thanks.  She used this move on the part of the song where it goes.. "A.. nd... Now.... let the weak say.." on the "A.. nd.. Now.." part.
The melody notes are.. G,Ab,Bb

The whole point of the move is to resolve to the G minor or the 3...

so far I got that she was either doing a

Ab dim resolve to  G minor
or Db7(b5) resolve to  G minor

Any others...???

[DaNatiMaestro]

What about an Fm9(b5) in 1st inversion?

I can see where you get this.. this was one of my initial thoughts as well.

Oh yeah.. she was using Ab as her bass.. the way she was playing the song she was definitely playing the bass on the bottom of her voicings with the melody on top.

[sjonathan02]

I can see where you get this.. this was one of my initial thoughts as well.

Oh yeah.. she was using Ab as her bass.. the way she was playing the song she was definitely playing the bass on the bottom of her voicings with the melody on top.

If I remember the DVD correctly, she mentions have small hands so she has to pedal her bass notes then play the accompaning chord.

[4hisglory]

Anyone know the numbers for a Major/Minor chord??

AbF/BEbG


I probably would think of it as some type of Ab chords that is resolving down a half step.

[cas10a]

Anyone know the numbers for a Major/Minor chord??

AbF/BEbG


I probably would think of it as some type of Ab chords that is resolving down a half step.

I was thinking the same...maybe a AbmMaj7add13

[rEaLiTy|cHecK]

that is a ii half-diminshed 7th chord, (fmin7b5) in first inversion [as somebody before me correctly identified i think]. the g in the soprano is a non-chord tone (a retardation) to the a flat.

if i remember correctly, that was on "for us, and now...". for us being the V chord (Bb7), then the passing chord which would normally be V42 (Bb7 chord in 3rd inversion)... but instead of playing some variation of a chord spelled Bb D F Ab, she substituted it with the similar F Ab B D (three common tones). then to and now she played that III chord (Gm7).

a very nice passing chord; she coulda dropped that Eb to make it a fully diminished chord, but keeping the Eb maximized the amount of common tones between the three chords, making for a nice refreshing sound. i definitely stole that chord for myself! lol

[Mysteryman]

That chord is tight. Got to use that. lol

[musallio]

I use this chord, but maybe not as effectivelly as Cassandra does.

I like the contribution every1's adding-it's making sense to me.

But I would've initially said it's an AbM7 (#9/ +13)..how's that

[cas10a]

Just curious? I haven't heard/seen the Cassandra O'neal DVD, so I'm not sure how she applied the chords above, but if she was in Eb the chord is AbF/BEbG why is it not an AbmM7(add13)?...

I can see where you might get Fm7b5 (F1/2dim7), but it doesn't include the "G" thats in the chord above...FAbBEb = Fm7b5

an AbmM7(add13) is AbBEbG and the 13th "F"...

I maybe wrong, but this is what I was thinking with the Ab chord...

[cas10a]

O.K. looking at this again...I can see where SJ, is coming from Fm"9"b5...I guess it would depend on the root/application.

[sjonathan02]

O.K. looking at this again...I can see where SJ, is coming from Fm"9"b5...I guess it would depend on the root/application.

See, and that leads me to the question: what is the rule concerning 'slash' chords. For example, a Bb/C is merely a C13 chord, is it not?

If not, why not? 

[4hisglory]

See, and that leads me to the question: what is the rule concerning 'slash' chords. For example, a Bb/C is merely a C13 chord, is it not?

If not, why not? 

Wouldn't that be a C11??  I think a BbM7/C is a C13.

[sjonathan02]

Wouldn't that be a C11??  I think a BbM7/C is a C13.

I don't think so.

[Mysteryman]

See, and that leads me to the question: what is the rule concerning 'slash' chords. For example, a Bb/C is merely a C13 chord, is it not?

If not, why not? 

You can see it as Fm9b5/Ab. A jazz player that could not reach it would leave the Ab out.

[BroAllan]

Wouldn't that be a C11??  I think a BbM7/C is a C13.

SJ, I believe that 4HG is correct.

The Bb/C chord only goes up to the 11th (4th 1 octave up), while the BbM7/C chord includes the 13th (6th 1 octave up).

Naming extended chords such as these, can become complex and ambiguous, (did I say that?  ).  Which is one big reason that it's a continuing learning process for me.   

[cas10a]

o.k. it is a C11 instead of C13...LOL, but I'm still on the question, as to why can't you call that first chord a AbmM7(add13)?...

I can see it either way as a Fm9b5 or a AbmM7(add13) both would include the same notes...my only thought is that you would name the chord with the bass root note which is (Ab), unless in her playing she is just inverting the bass root of the chord and playing the Ab as if she altered the root as if there was a bass player playing the (F).

[BroAllan]

o.k. it is a C11 instead of C13...LOL, but I'm still on the question, as to why can't you call that first chord a AbmM7(add13)?...

I can see it either way as a Fm9b5 or a AbmM7(add13) both would include the same notes...my only thought is that you would name the chord with the bass root note which is (Ab), unless in her playing she is just inverting the bass root of the chord and playing the Ab as if she altered the root as if there was a bass player playing the (F).

I don't know that you can't call it an "AbmM7(add13) or(add6th) chord, cas10a ...
Although I play some of these chords, technically, there are some rules and theories that govern chord naming.  That's why calling them by their proper names is still a challenge for me.