PLEASE HELP WITH Extended Chords!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Marcus12]

I have searched and searched for some sort of way to figure out how to play 11th and 13th chords.   Can someone please help me out?????????!!!!!

For example one website I have been to only says this:

Minor Eleventh - 1,b3,5,b7,9,11
Dominant Eleventh - 1,3,5,b7,9,11
Dominant Sharp Eleventh - 1,3,5,b7,9,#11
Major 7 Sharp 11 - 1,3,5,7,9,#11
Major Thirteenth - 1,3,5,7,9,11,13
Minor Thirteenth - 1,b3,5,b7,9,11,13
Dominant Thirteenth - 1,3,5,b7,9,11,13

And another tells me that you have to (not in these exact words but something close) have the 3rd and 7th present to signify what key your chord is in.   

Can someone please give me the rules on 11th and 13th chords?  What notes have to be present and what notes don't?   I looked on this sight and the only thing that came close to me understanding it was......

C13 = b7, 9, 11, 13 (C / Bb D F A).......is this the way it works?
CM13 = 7, 9, 11, 13 (C / B D F A)........."           "

is there a Cm13????  If so, I wouldn't know how to play that based on it looks like on the 13 chord you don't play the 1, 3, 5 so there would not be any place for a minor (1, b3, 5).

[ddw4e]

Yes, there is a Cm13

Cm13
C Eb G / Bb D A

I play a CM13 like
C G / B D E A

and a C13 like
C E G / Bb D A

For a 13th chord, you need the 7th and 9th notes
For a 11th chord, you need the 9th.

[T-Block]

Here is a chord chart for you man:  http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,43117.0.html

[docjohn]

hey marcus,this may help you with the concept;  take a C13,if you play the major 7 th of the chord below it ;i.e,(i step), Bb-that give you the extende d voicing. then use left hand/bass for the rest of it      C 13     bass C ,rt hand Bb,D,F,A    ,lt hand E or Eb and Bb,etc.  i've found at some point your really playing polychords,ie   C(bass)   Eb,G,Bb (lt hand an Eb chord) ,with Bb,D,F,A (above)  pretty cool stuff. was doing some jazz chord stuff when i figured this out-some of the stuff J immy Smith and jazz cats do hope it blesses you

[T-Block]

For any 9th, 11th, or 13th chord all you really need is 1st, 3rd, 7th, and whatever type of chord it is.  So:

Dominant 9th = 1-3-b7-9
Major 9th = 1-3-7-9
Minor 9th = 1-b3-b7-9

Dominant 11th = 1-3-b7-11
Major 11th = 1-3-7-11
Minor 11th = 1-b3-b7-11

Dominant 13th = 1-3-b7-13
Major 13th = 1-3-7-13
Minor 13th = 1-b3-b7-13

The reason why I say that's all you really need is because those 4 notes are the core of the chords.  If you want them to sound more full, then you can add in notes as you see fit.

[BroAllan]

For any 9th, 11th, or 13th chord all you really need is 1st, 3rd, 7th, and whatever type of chord it is.  So:

Dominant 9th = 1-3-b7-9
Major 9th = 1-3-7-9
Minor 9th = 1-b3-b7-9

Dominant 11th = 1-3-b7-11
Major 11th = 1-3-7-11
Minor 11th = 1-b3-b7-11

Dominant 13th = 1-3-b7-13
Major 13th = 1-3-7-13
Minor 13th = 1-b3-b7-13

The reason why I say that's all you really need is because those 4 notes are the core of the chords.  If you want them to sound more full, then you can add in notes as you see fit.

Thanks again T-Block, for bringing clarity in an area where it can get a little confusing ...    BroAllan

[T-Block]

Thanks again T-Block, for bringing clarity in an area where it can get a little confusing ...    BroAllan

You're welcome, no problem man.  I know this music theory stuff can get very confusing if u ain't mighty careful.

[Marcus12]

  Thanks a lot LGM Fam!     I think I understand it now.  I see that you have a bit of options when it comes to playing extended chords (especially the 13 chord).  But just to make sure that I have some what of an understanding of it................

Dominant 13 = 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 which = (using C...C E G B D E A).  But the most common way I guess you can say is playing the 7th and beyond (9, 11, 13).  Then the rest are basically mixing all the notes up to match the sound you are looking for.  Also inverting the chord say from Bb D E A to E A Bb D and so forth.   

I really appreciate ya'lls help on this.  I'm telling you I was trying so hard to figure out how to just get a basic understanding of 11th's and 13th chords.  May God bless all of you for being a blessing and sharing the knowledge and wisdom He has given to you!

[BroAllan]

Thanks a lot LGM Fam!     I think I understand it now.  I see that you have a bit of options when it comes to playing extended chords (especially the 13 chord).  But just to make sure that I have some what of an understanding of it................

Dominant 13 = 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 which = (using C...C E G B D E A).  But the most common way I guess you can say is playing the 7th and beyond (9, 11, 13).  Then the rest are basically mixing all the notes up to match the sound you are looking for.  Also inverting the chord say from Bb D E A to E A Bb D and so forth.   

I really appreciate ya'lls help on this.  I'm telling you I was trying so hard to figure out how to just get a basic understanding of 11th's and 13th chords.  May God bless all of you for being a blessing and sharing the knowledge and wisdom He has given to you!

Hey Marcus,
     The 9ths, 11ths, and 13ths chord can get a bit confusing, and although I now have a better understanding of how the chords are formed, I must admit that from time to time I still have to check out the chord chart to make sure I have the right notes in the chord.
     One thing that I learned was the importance of the 7th note.  This used to cause a lot of confusion for me because I didn't know when to play a flatted 7th, a major 7th, or a double flatted 7th. Then I learned that the name of the chord will determine what type of 7th note is played.
 
     Here is the way I remember it:

"A "Major" chord, or "Major-minor" chord, will have a "regular 7th" note ..."

"A "Dominant", "minor", "augmented", or "half-diminished" chord, will have a "flatted 7th" note ...

"A "diminished" chord, will have a "double flatted 7th" note ...

This is just something I thought I'd share because of the problems I had learning extended chords.
                        God bless you, and hope this helps you and others ...   BroAllan 

P.S.  T-Block please correct me if anything I posted was in error ...  thanks

[T-Block]

     Here is the way I remember it:

"A "Major" chord, or "Major-minor" chord, will have a "regular 7th" note ..."

"A "Dominant", "minor", "augmented", or "half-diminished" chord, will have a "flatted 7th" note ...

"A "diminished" chord, will have a "double flatted 7th" note ...

This is just something I thought I'd share because of the problems I had learning extended chords.
                        God bless you, and hope this helps you and others ...   BroAllan 

P.S.  T-Block please correct me if anything I posted was in error ...  thanks

That is all correct man.  Actually, that is a pretty good way to remember those tricky chords, I wish i could have thought of that back when I was just starting out.

[docjohn]

yo marcus,where are you detting that top E in a c 13?should be an f if you are playing the 11 th

[chevonee]

Thanks for asking this question Marcus because these chords can be very confusing. This info has really cleared up alot of my question. God bless all of you who continue to help us on our way!!

[T-Block]

yo marcus,where are you detting that top E in a c 13?should be an f if you are playing the 11 th

It was probably a typo.

[Marcus12]

Ok.....I'm back again.  I tried the ways that you all have explained for the 13 chord.  I tried your way T-Block and it doesn't seem to match the song.  I am working on writting out the chords for the post Darkwing made for "Still Have Joy".  Can someone help me out and correct this???  I also would like to know how you came/come up with the playing the 13 chord.  I wrote them out using (not neccessarily in this order)......................1, 3, b7, 13.

(Intro)

Ebm7      Eb / Eb Gb Bb Db

Db      F / F Ab Db
Gb9      Gb / Gb Ab Bb Db
Gdim7      G / G Bb Db E   
Gb      Gb / Gb Bb Db
Gb9      Gb / Gb Ab Bb Db

F7      F / F A C Eb
Gm      G / G Ab B
F7      A / F A C Eb
F7      F / F A C Eb

(Verse I)

Though He slay me,

Eb13      Eb / C Eb G Db
E13      E / Db E Ab D
F13      F / D F A Eb    Yet will I……….
Bbm      Bb / Bb Db F      trust Him

[Marcus12]

Ok I think I finally figured them out    Let me know if I'm right.

C13 =

C / Bb D E A (which = 1 / b7, 9(2), 3, 13(6)
C / E A Bb (which = 1 / 3, 13(6), b7

I say 13 or 6 because it was easier for me to remember because everytime I said 13 I had to count ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH TO THE NEXT OCTAVE!  and it really would confuse me for some reason.  If I say 6 I know (in this case) it's the key of A, just one whole step above the perfect 5.  Am I correct on the common voicing for this chord?

[T-Block]

Ok I think I finally figured them out    Let me know if I'm right.

C13 =

C / Bb D E A (which = 1 / b7, 9(2), 3, 13(6)
C / E A Bb (which = 1 / 3, 13(6), b7

I say 13 or 6 because it was easier for me to remember because everytime I said 13 I had to count ALL THE WAY UP THROUGH TO THE NEXT OCTAVE!  and it really would confuse me for some reason.  If I say 6 I know (in this case) it's the key of A, just one whole step above the perfect 5.  Am I correct on the common voicing for this chord?

I would tend to go with the first one as a correct voicing.  Remember, you have to distinguish a 13 from a 6.  The only way to do that is if the 13 comes after the b7.  If it comes before the b7, then it is considered a 6.

C-E-G-Bb-D-F-A  is different from C-E-G-A-Bb.