Theory to Very Mellow Talk Music Chords HERE!!

[sjonathan02]

Dude, these chords are messin' with my ear. Translation, I'm having a hard time getting used to the sound of these chord progressions.


It gonna take some time, but I'm gonna put it in. And, you're right, I do have a zeal for learning this stuff. I feel like I'm just beginning to crack the surface of the wall that I've been hitting for awhile now.


Thanks, Nati!!

sjonathan02, You bring up a good point.. it's all about what you're listening to too... some people don't feel me when I say it's just as important to listen to good music then to practice.. why?

It's a little thing called ear training.. when I first started to play all I heard was my dad's organ playing so guess what progressions/runs I was doing? Progressions/runs that my dad did; see, Theory is one thing but application is another.. when you hear it in action your brains starts to register that "sound".. example, I listen to alot of jazz, George Duke, Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock so guess what.. my "sound" is a reflection of that.. but there is a bad side to this too.. my "church" doesn't sound very "church"ie if that makes sense.. like not very old school-ish with that soulful gospel feel. that sorta kills me during hymns and stuff but I'm constantly learning so now I'm trying to listen to the "old school" gospel so that I don't sound like a Jazz musician playing gospel.. but a well rounded musician who can play various styles!

So I said all of that to say this, make sure you're listening to a wide variety of music.. as you listen to more of the comtemporary gospel keyboardist like Kevin Bond, Aaron Lindsey, GospelKeyboard.com's Jamal Hartwell.. you'll register these progressions and begin to identify with them.. Hopefully that makes sense!

Truth be told, I am listening to all of those guys you are mentioning. There's a CD that I think you might be interested in; it's called "Simply Hymns" by Peter Neville (I think that's his name). He has a lot of the familiar hymns that I think would help you, if that's what you're looking for.

Thanks for the advice, keep it coming....please

[sjonathan02]

Ok, so here's the next question: Where else can one use tri-tone subs? I can understand using them in the classic 2-5-1 progression, but where else can a brotha use these gems?

DaNati, I've been playing the heck out of my donald lawrence CD (I speak Life; I hope you have it) There are a couple of songs on there that I would love for you to break down for us beginners on here. One of them is called "Miracles" the other is called "Say a Prayer"

let me know if this might be possible. In addition, it'll help me to really begin to understand how these tri-tones work in action.


thanks

[jt3n1]

It's cool  DNati( I mean using my name and all) And yes that convo was very insightful..... we need to chat again. I love talking theory. I haven't had a chance yet to take this info home, but based on our early convo, this will be good. I will post again once I get a chance to really dig into the meat of this. And to set the record straight DNati is the one who really put the tritones in perspective. I merely stated what I knew about them. Good post!!

[silky]

thanks for the info, i am about to practice them now.  but i do have a question about the tritone.  you say that a tritone is a maj. 3rd and a min 7th, i thought a tritone that can be played on any note of a key.  i'm confused. will you help me

I wanna help you out but you've confused me with your question.. lol... 
Could you rephrase it?

sorry for the confusion.  i mean is this the only way a tritone can be built?

Pretty much.. to get the tritone for a particular bass note or root.. you take the major 3rd and minor 7h of that bass note or root's major scale and you will have the tritone.

Now if you're trying to figure out a note's "TRITONE substitution" then just find the note that is an augmented fourth (#4) or diminished fifth (b5) away.. for example..

If I'm playing a C7 but I'd like to make a tritone substitution for the chord or the bass then I need to find the note that is either a #4 or b5 in this case a F# or Gb.. so you can now make the tritone substitution by playing either a F#7 or playing the C7 with F# in the bass.

These are really the only two approaches to the tritone that I can give you.

ok, ok i get it now.........thanks

ps.  whenever you feel the erge to post theory @ 3:00 in the morning,  don't fight it cause i'm learning

[rjthakid]

I'd Suggest you do what I did, which is buy a book with picture chords.  It has every Major, Minor, Dominant, Major 7th, 9th, 11th, 13th, suspended, diminished, augmented, etc., etc., etc.  With alterations!

What I love about it is, every chord shown is a two hand chord.  So even on simple major and minor chords they show you power chords in the left hand. 

Then study study study!

What book, dude?

It's called "Chords and Progressions for Jazz and Popular Keyboard"

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0825622867/102-8002704-7656954?v=glance&n=283155

Excellent Book.  Also gives some nice progressions.

[sjonathan02]

Alright Danati,

Here's a question for you. When you're putting these chords together, are you thinking bassline or melody? In other words, are thinking about what bass note you're going to next, or are you thinking what chord would sound nice with this melody that I have created?


Thanks, man......Hey, is it 3:00 in the morning yet? 

[rjthakid]

 I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - vii  | 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7
P stands for Passing Chord

Pattern 1 - Key of Bb
ii - IV Progression (2-4)
ii  | CGBb/DEbFBb | 1 5 b7 / 9 b3 11 b7 | Cmin11
P | DF#/CFAC      | 1 3 / b7 #9 5 b7 | D7#9
IV | EbBbC/DFGBbD | 1 5 6(13) / 7 9 3 5 7 | EbMaj6/9
P | DbFB/EbGBbEb | 1 3 b7 / 9 #11 13 9 | Db7#11

Pattern 2 - Key of Bb
IV - vi Progression (4-6) Rewrote order of chords to see progression easier
IV | EbBb/DFGBbC | 1 5 / 7 9 3 5 6(13) | EbMaj6/9
P | F#C/FBbCF | 3 b7 / #9 b13 7 #9 | D7#9b13 (rootless voicing) bass would be played by FP or bass player
vi | GD/FABbD | 1 5 / b7 9 b3 5 | Gmin9
P | AE/GCEG | 1 5 / b7 b3 5 b7 | Amin7
P | BF#/DF#A | 1 5 / b3 5 b7 | Bmin7
P | BbAb/DGBD | 1 b7 / 3 13 b9 3 | Bb7b9 (added 13)

Pattern 3 - Key of G
I - IV - vi - IV Progression (1-4-6-4)
I | GD/ABDF#,D | 1 5 / 9 3 5 7, 5 | GMaj9
IV | CG/DEGB,G | 1 5 / 9 3 5 7, 5 | CMaj9
vi | EA/BDF#A,F# | 1 4(11) / 5 b7 9 11, 9 | Esus E/D D major triad over E in bass (HOT b/c no 3rd)
IV | CG/BDEG,E | 1 5 / 7 9 3 5, 3 | CMaj9
Special Note here the D7#9b13 from Pattern 2 acts as a V to take you to the key of G! Listen to pattern 3 again and you'll hear the key change.. the chord I play before the GMaj9 is the D7#9b13 chord.

Pattern 4 - Key of G
IV - V - vi Progression (4 - 5 - 6) A Very Common Worship Vamp
IV | CGB/DGBD | 1 5 7 / 9 5 7 9 | CMaj9 (HOT b/c no 3rd)
V | DAD/EF#AD | 1 5 1 / 9 3 5 1 | DMaj9
vi | EAB/DF#AD | 1 4 5 / b7 9 11 b7 | Esus E/D (slash chord) same as above just voiced differently
P | F#C#/ABE,F# | 1 5 / b3 11 b7, 1 | F#min11
P | AbEbGb/BbBEb | 1 5 b7 | 9 b3 5 | Abmin9
P | FB/EAbB | b7 3 / 11 b9 3 | G7b9 (added 11) Rootless voicing (G would be played by FP or bass player)

This is a new standard on posting chords.  The Roman numeral, the notes, the NUMBERS OF THE NOTES!, and the names of the chords. 

This is the best format possible for posting chords.  Well done man!

[silky]

Alright Danati,

Here's a question for you. When you're putting these chords together, are you thinking bassline or melody? In other words, are thinking about what bass note you're going to next, or are you thinking what chord would sound nice with this melody that I have created?


Thanks, man......Hey, is it 3:00 in the morning yet? 

that's a good question

[DaNatiMaestro]

Ok, so here's the next question: Where else can one use tri-tone subs? I can understand using them in the classic 2-5-1 progression, but where else can a brotha use these gems?

DaNati, I've been playing the heck out of my donald lawrence CD (I speak Life; I hope you have it) There are a couple of songs on there that I would love for you to break down for us beginners on here. One of them is called "Miracles" the other is called "Say a Prayer"

let me know if this might be possible. In addition, it'll help me to really begin to understand how these tri-tones work in action.


thanks

To answer your first question, it's really up to your ear.  It's easy to try to explain a Tri-tone substitution but it's harder to put it in practice.  I'd start off by just doing simple tritone substitutions when you have a dominant seventh chords.. so like in a song you have Ab7 you have two choices you can either substitute that Ab7 chord for a D7 or play the Ab7 in RH then play a D in the bass.

Unfortunately.. I don't have that CD.. I'd love to chord that out for you but I don't have it..

[DaNatiMaestro]

Alright Danati,

Here's a question for you. When you're putting these chords together, are you thinking bassline or melody? In other words, are thinking about what bass note you're going to next, or are you thinking what chord would sound nice with this melody that I have created?


Thanks, man......Hey, is it 3:00 in the morning yet? 

You are ON it man... that's exactly what I do.. although I'm playing these chords I hear possible basslines that could go underneath these chords and melodies that can go over the top.  Mostly I'm thinking bassline though since your bassline is normally your backbone when it comes to progressions and stuff...

and yes it is 3:00 am in the morning...

I haven't been on here as much b/c I'm trying to graduate from college so with that comes tests and PROJECTS.. but Praise God cuz it's almost over!!!

[DaNatiMaestro]

To sjonathan02, rjthakid and EVERYBODY ELSE,

Thanks for all of your feedback and everything on these chords and posts.  It's good to know that so many people are getting so much usage and understanding from these posts.

Now some folks may ask WHY.. why post all of this?  Isn't this overkill? Well maybe but I know for me if I can explain something then I've understood it and mastered it.  (That's why during math class I always wanted to go up to the board.. not b/c I knew it all but b/c I wanted to reinforce what I know..)

I'm encouraging everyone to POST what you know!!  It will help you more than the folks that read it.. TRUST me..

[sjonathan02]

To sjonathan02, rjthakid and EVERYBODY ELSE,

Thanks for all of your feedback and everything on these chords and posts.  It's good to know that so many people are getting so much usage and understanding from these posts.

Now some folks may ask WHY.. why post all of this?  Isn't this overkill? Well maybe but I know for me if I can explain something then I've understood it and mastered it.  (That's why during math class I always wanted to go up to the board.. not b/c I knew it all but b/c I wanted to reinforce what I know..)

I'm encouraging everyone to POST what you know!!  It will help you more than the folks that read it.. TRUST me..

Yo, that's a real on time word of encouragement, right there. Thanks, man; I think you just destroyed a yoke, right dere. Keep ya head up, and I'll see you around here or GK.com.

Lata

[diverse379]

It is funny I know all the stuff you talked about but when you put it lije you did you are right there are really only a few elements to this thing aprt from rhythym

i like the theory approach and i am about to check your chords out and let you know what i think but i wanted to say you did an excellent job of breaking down the advanced fundamentals

keep it up

[LyricTenor]

   I just wish I had an INKLING of a clue as to what you all were talking about.  It sounds very interesting and productive, so that just increases my desire to play that much more.

[silky]

[

thanks for the info, i am about to practice them now.  but i do have a question about the tritone.  you say that a tritone is a maj. 3rd and a min 7th, i thought a tritone that can be played on any note of a key.  i'm confused. will you help me

Nati gave one way to use tritones (a way I never thought of, and WILL try as soon as I get home!), but tritones are very also very convenient for playing a dominant 7th chord.

If I want to play Cdom7, which is C - E - G - Bb, I could play:

E-Bb/C-E-G

A tritone in the left hand that has the third and dominant seventh of 'C', and a Simple C Major in the Right.  I could also play a C Power chord (C-G) seeing as I already have the E in my left hand.





And to Nati......Thanks man.  I can't WAIT to get home and practice till 2am   

thanks rjthakid

[DaNatiMaestro]

BUMPED FOR kohnwayer

[T-Block]

WOW, how could I have missed this post last year?  Man, I need to add this link to the sticky I got in the General Music Hangout Room, which I'm gonna do right now.  Fantastic Job!!!     

[DaNatiMaestro]

WOW, how could I have missed this post last year?  Man, I need to add this link to the sticky I got in the General Music Hangout Room, which I'm gonna do right now.  Fantastic Job!!!     

Thanks for the sticky sir!  I'm just trying to catch up with you.. you've definitely been holding it down with the theory and teaching stuff.

I have another song/theory post where I do this same breakdown for an intro to a song and break it down chord for chord.  It's buried in this forum somewhere. But its all about helping each other out plus lately I've just been in a teaching mode... like wanting students and everything.  I think about teaching chords and music at work, at home, at church, everywhere.  I guess you can say it's a passion area of mine. LOL.

[chevonee]

Yeah man I missed this post, thanks for putting a sticky on it T-block. I can't wait to go over this info in front of my keyboard. God bless you DaNatiMaestro

[BroAllan]

Wow!  Thanks for all that you've shared bruh!

You've done an excellent job in spelling it out for us ... 

                       God bless you,  BroAllan