Sonofpaul, you are 100% right. I use to work for the country's leading music chain and had the chance to go to Canada and met Bob Zildjian. 1 of the nicest guys you could ever meet. I met his wife, Billy, and Andy. We hung out at his house, and got the chance to see the whole operation(TWICE). I even got the chance to hand hammer cymbals. It's nothing like being in the cymbal vault and picking out cymabls. I got to choose from hundreds. That was back in 96, and 97. I have a 21' stage ride aax, and 14' fast hats aax, Then the next year i got a 16' el sabor and had a rivett put in it, and a 12' china. I got them all free except for the china. And i have them all today without single crack. From that i chose sabians. I put them up against any cymbals.