played Kronos-did NOT like it

[ma1ne]

I have a ? Now I may seem like a Privia endorser, but do you really think that there is a world of difference between the "mortgage boards" like the yamahas etc and the lesser boards like Privias? The next and probably last board I get for a while will be the the Privia PX3 and its only 7 bills. My man has the MO8 so Ive played along with him and theres really no difference to me. Spending 4 stacks on a board is ridiculous IMO. I dont see why they are so overpriced, workstation or not.

[apex]

Apex your a funny person.................you think korg has a nice product in the kronos that doesnt mean its reality buddy, except for hip hop heads who live by the triton and mpc nobody is breaking their neck for this overpriced piece of crap. ask anyone if they were given a choice between a motif, nord, fantom, or kronos at the same price point and see where it comes out

your pathetic demeanor or trying to play my intelligence is so weak, go in a corner and watch a jamal hartwell dvd and learn a tri-tone so you can be a neo-soul superstar

LOL...  at the Jamal Hartwell joke.  anyway...

I don't believe that "hip hop heads" are going to be the main audience for the Kronos.  And when you say "ask anyone", you must mean mainly church musicians?  And if that is what you are speaking of, then I completely agree with you.  But it's not because of reality, it's because the follow the crowd.  People that flock to motifs only flock there because of presets and what appears out the box.  Don't get me wrong, the motif does sound wonderful and I'm not really knocking them... I'm just saying the Kronos is a nice machine and it does sound great!!! (I do not work for Korg.... just so you know)

if all you want to do is play someone elses presets, then the motif series is fine (maybe even the nord too)... but if you want to explore your board and learn about synthesis... and make your OWN great sounds, then the Korg stuff is the first place I'd go. (in most cases and even more so now with the Kronos.)  Please go do some research and then make a more informed decision.

Maybe we should do a poll and see what the community here thinks.  Or better yet on a forum outside of the church musician circuit.  I've heard it said before, that if church musicians were paid the way they should be or deserved to be paid, then they wouldn't have to "make due" with casios and such.  And if they do get a chance to buy a high-end synth, they don't take the time to really learn it and make the best of it... they just grab a few presets and use them individually, they layer those presets and that's it. 

the average church musician doesn't know anything about wave roms, lfos, modulation, filters.... none of that.  And that's how you milk everything out of a synth.  Using ALL THE TOOLS that the company gives you.  Not just a sequencer and the presets.  These boards have so much more to offer than how they get used in our circuit....

don't spend $3000 on a synth and just use it as a sequencer and for it's presets.  get what you paid out of the instrument (or do what someone else said earlier, get a casio!!!)

musiqisme is respect you as a musician.  and I wasn't taking a shot at your intelligence.  I just wanted you to see the context that I used the word ludicrous (most people just think it means crazy).  That was not an attempt to degrade you.

if you don't like the Kronos then fine.  But don't go around spreading incorrect and misinformed opinions about it.  If you don't "need" the Kronos then keep using your nord.  But to say the pianos are the worst and it's a useless machine.... c'mon man!!!!

[musiqisme26]

@apex, We can shake hands and agree to disagree

im not a big fan of church musicians, they lack discipline imho

[apex]

@apex, We can shake hands and agree to disagree

im not a big fan of church musicians, they lack discipline imho

i can understand that.  and truce accepted!!! 

I'm not a "church musician", but I'm a musician that has been blessed with the opportunity to serve God with my gift!!!!  (that is NOT THE SAME THING)....LOL

[floaded27]

i can understand that.  and truce accepted!!! 

I'm not a "church musician", but I'm a musician that has been blessed with the opportunity to serve God with my gift!!!!  (that is NOT THE SAME THING)....LOL

i was about to say, whats ur definition of a church musician. lol

but to be honest a lot of this stuff dont matter to most musicians. Not because they dont want it to, but just because of the environment. I've gotten into learning about stuff u mentioned (wave roms, lfos, modulation, filters) more from a recording standpoint and developing an ear for hearing what works together and the dynamics of samples, you start to notice a lot gets lost in live sound situations. No point in having a $3k board, with all your custom set preferences and sounds getting 100% out of the board, when your playing through a house system that sounds like an AM radio station. I've seen it (or rather heard it) Fantoms, Motifs, Tritons etc and dude is jamming and the sound system sounds like utter crap.

Cant say anything about the Kronos, havent played it. Most boards i go through basic sounds (i dont have all day to check out every sound, figure out how to navigate through the menus, and tweak settings) when testing them out. I do the same with my Motif. I'd rather use that half hour or more actually PRACTICING than figuring out how to get this or that sound. Im a bass player, so my keys practice time is limited. But on MY opinion, I favor Motifs because of the feel of the keys. Korgs keys have always felt a bit cheap. Roland Fantom was only a bit better. Of course this is not talking about the weighted keys on the 88 boards.

But honestly, who ever uses EVERYTHING in one of these boards? Unless you're doing some serious sequencing, or playing live in every genre of music. But if you dont have to, why is that a strike against you?

[under13]

I think that quite a few "church musicians" are now taking advantage of what synths have to offer. Look at People like Black Surfer, and Cooper's temple, among others on youtube.  I think that in the next few years we will be seeing a lot more people coming up with different sounds other than the traditional church sounds.   

As for korgs, they seem better suited for the synth stuff, thats why you always see them on the second tier of the keyboard stand. I guess they are trying to  change that.

[apex]

but to be honest a lot of this stuff dont matter to most musicians. Not because they dont want it to, but just because of the environment. I've gotten into learning about stuff u mentioned (wave roms, lfos, modulation, filters) more from a recording standpoint and developing an ear for hearing what works together and the dynamics of samples, you start to notice a lot gets lost in live sound situations. No point in having a $3k board, with all your custom set preferences and sounds getting 100% out of the board, when your playing through a house system that sounds like an AM radio station. I've seen it (or rather heard it) Fantoms, Motifs, Tritons etc and dude is jamming and the sound system sounds like utter crap.

Yeah I'm with you on how things seems to get "lost in the mix" sometimes... if that's completely the case, the the mox or the kronos (for that matter) is no better than ANY OTHER BOARD on the market.  But your point about the AM radio station... that's just sad.  but most of our churches have that EXACT problem.  no one wants to invest money in the things that matter most.  We just want to get by.  and do enough to get by....  it's so easy to say "do man I'm not buying no motif when I can just go to radio shack and get a keyboard...., it's gonna do the same thing"

do you really believe that?  I don't.  As weird as it may seem, sounds (and the RIGHT sounds) help to create atmospheres in our services.  and the more time we spend preparing ourselves and having something for every atmosphere and listening to God as to which sound is the right sound the better our services will be.  It's almost equivalent to playing an b3 and having all the drawbars pulled out during the initial onset of the alter call... not appropriate.  so we learn and study (or we should learn and study), and experiment with different drawbar settings that will aide/support/enhance the service. 

it's also easy to slap a piano and string together and go to town or a bass on the left side and a piano on the other....... but that's so 90s... LOL.  We've got to stay current.  Music now (let's say over the last 10-15 years) has changed DRASTICALLY compared to the times before that....  the reason?  well besides God and him giving to us what to play....and him giving us talent....  the next most important thing is probably the tools.  the instruments that we use.  Instruments inspire people to play and create new sounds... things never heard before.  sit down and listen to a CD of your favorite current artist and count how many different sounds you hear used.  there are tons and tons of stuff in there. And it would be impossible to replicate that with ONLY a privia.  now most cases (with people I know) that use privias, there are merely in the equation only because of the keys.  they are just using them as a controller.  But even then there is no modulation wheel... so if you are using an organ patch (from a module)... how to you turn your leslie effect on or off?  or if you got your mike bereal (not really mike bereal's though) synth bass patch going... how do you turn the modulation on to make it shake the way he does?!?!?!!? 

You need tools to create these types of effects and in my opinion privias just don't cut it when it comes to control. 

Now if you are satisfied with just layering a piano and strings then do your business and go to town!!! Just know and remember that there is so much more out there to be heard.  Just experiment.  Who knows what you'll come up with. "Sing unto the Lord a NEW song!!!!"

Cant say anything about the Kronos, havent played it. Most boards i go through basic sounds (i dont have all day to check out every sound, figure out how to navigate through the menus, and tweak settings) when testing them out. I do the same with my Motif. I'd rather use that half hour or more actually PRACTICING than figuring out how to get this or that sound. Im a bass player, so my keys practice time is limited.

To me practicing what you will play (notes) is or can be just as important as practicing what you will play (sounds).  Have you even been in a situation or seen a situation where a keyboard player was fumbling around looking for a certain sound during service?  I have seen it and I have had it happen to me before.  It's not fun or funny.  But having the perfect patch ready to go when the atmosphere changes... man that can be so satisfying!!!  Just this past weekend... Joyce Rodgers was at a conference at my church...  during one of the services the people had just finished a praise break... and the atmosphere shifted... I went from playing a thickly layerd synth/piano/etc... patch to a E.P./Flute layer that I'd created specifically for that type of situation.  After church one of the missionaries told me that my timing was perfect and helped set/sustain the atmosphere of worship.  I was thankful to God that he spoke to me and told me when to switch... or better yet when I made the sound.  (God is SOOOO FAITHFUL!!!!)  Use your time to work on ANY and EVERYTHING that will enhance the service.  Like I said... even as simple as the organ, You could have all the chords and licks in the world and the wrong drawbar setting and it all be for nothing....  It's all useful!!!!

But honestly, who ever uses EVERYTHING in one of these boards? Unless you're doing some serious sequencing, or playing live in every genre of music. But if you dont have to, why is that a strike against you?

no one uses everything in the boards.  that is what I said we were discussing on another forum.  You'll probably be very hard pressed to find many people that truly know a board inside and out 100%... but it's fun trying and you learn alot about your tool.  But if you're not going to try and learn it or "you don't have time to learn it"... why did you buy a motif?  why do you buy a motif and not use those things that make a motif different from an s90?  if you aren't going to use those things... then can't you just by an s90?  I think you said you're church just purchased a mox right?  why did they get a mox instead of the mo?  there is probably close to $1000 difference in those boards... and based on how it's probably being used... couldn't the mo have done the job as well?

Not a strike against someone... just something to think about... something to consider.  I talk to great musicians (I mean awesome musicians) all the time that had NO IDEA what a multisample was... or a wave rom and that you could go in and build your OWN programs based on the wave rom.  not just combining voices to make multis (yamaha speak) or combining programs to make combis (krog speak)... but that you could go in and change the building blocks or a program or a voice and make WONDERFUL sounds.  Presets just show you kinda what the board is capable of.  If you go in a tweak things to your liking... it's just SO MUCH MORE FULFILLING!!!!  and then you won't sound like anyone else.  You have a sound that is unique to YOU!!!

[musiqisme26]

I think that quite a few "church musicians" are now taking advantage of what synths have to offer. Look at People like Black Surfer, and Cooper's temple, among others on youtube.  I think that in the next few years we will be seeing a lot more people coming up with different sounds other than the traditional church sounds.   

As for korgs, they seem better suited for the synth stuff, thats why you always see them on the second tier of the keyboard stand. I guess they are trying to  change that.

these guys all play outside of church and probably would not be considered church musicians most of whom ive met in other platforms but bring those elements back into their respective worship experience

i think apex will agree the term church musician is for those who only regulate themselves to playing music only on sundays or saturdays, by their own choice or not.....so for me church only makes up about 20% of my income but it is the most consistent

[under13]

these guys all play outside of church and probably would not be considered church musicians most of whom ive met in other platforms but bring those elements back into their respective worship experience

i think apex will agree the term church musician is for those who only regulate themselves to playing music only on sundays or saturdays, by their own choice or not.....so for me church only makes up about 20% of my income but it is the most consistent

If you say so...

[apex]

that sounds about right.  I don't play secular at all.  But I'm not just a church musician.....

it's crazy how it's "ok" for guys to play in the secular arena, and then show up at church on sunday morning... (another subject... maybe I shouldn't have even opened the can...)  if you can disregard my comment...

to change the subject...(in a very direct and as quick as possible way)

I've got a giant sound palette that I'm working from right now.  My studio rig (as well as special occasions live)

I've got a:

Triton Extreme 88 (on my bottom tier) - By the end of the month it won't be here any longer - I'm upgrading to the Kronos 88.   (at least there is a huge chance that I am)
Roland Fantom G7 (on my top tier)

in my rack case: (very rarely will leave the home studio)

Motif XS rack
XV-5080
Rantom XR

(my consistent live rig now consist of):
Korg m3m (used for clicks and a sound module)
Laptop

I want to get a nice (VERY LIGHT WEIGHTED) 88 key controller (weighted keys) to just leave in my truck all the time... then just travel with the m3m and my laptop and never have to take the studio keyboards out with me... which is what I have to do now)

I "plan" on keeping the Kronos 88 in the studio, but based on what I'm hearing... it's easy to plan to do that... but very hard to execute it.  It only weighs 50 pounds...so it could make for quite the road ready rig....

who knows.....

If my church didn't have that freaking kurz stage piano, I could say for sure that it would be at church with me EVERY SUNDAY!!! LOL.

[floaded27]

Yeah I'm with you on how things seems to get "lost in the mix" sometimes... if that's completely the case, the the mox or the kronos (for that matter) is no better than ANY OTHER BOARD on the market.  But your point about the AM radio station... that's just sad.  but most of our churches have that EXACT problem.  no one wants to invest money in the things that matter most.  We just want to get by.  and do enough to get by....  it's so easy to say "do man I'm not buying no motif when I can just go to radio shack and get a keyboard...., it's gonna do the same thing"

to most, it does do the same thing. they cant tell the difference. Do you know how many people i STILL have to explain the difference between a bass and regular guitar. they'll never get it. so i'd never expect them to know the difference. The problem is they'll rarely defer the decisions to those that do. "We need new equipment." So rather than take someone who knows whats needed with you to make the purchase, you go buy whatever on your own, and half the time it either the cheapest stuff or whatever the guy in the store convinced you to buy.

To me practicing what you will play (notes) is or can be just as important as practicing what you will play (sounds).  Have you even been in a situation or seen a situation where a keyboard player was fumbling around looking for a certain sound during service?  I have seen it and I have had it happen to me before.  It's not fun or funny.

Most of the times i see this is when a player is using someone else's equipment, and sometimes you cant do much about that. Dont be mistaken that I dont explore the board, but I need more time practicing. I dont have all the chords in the world, far from it. Mastery is nowhere near achieved. Keyboard makes my hands work in different ways than the bass, so its a big adjustment. With the other extreme, no point in having the sweetest sounds and the atmosphere changing ones and you cant play fluently. I've seen guys fumble in the atmosphere when its not in their only key. Thats bad too. not pretty.

no one uses everything in the boards.  that is what I said we were discussing on another forum.  You'll probably be very hard pressed to find many people that truly know a board inside and out 100%... but it's fun trying and you learn alot about your tool.  But if you're not going to try and learn it or "you don't have time to learn it"... why did you buy a motif?  why do you buy a motif and not use those things that make a motif different from an s90?  if you aren't going to use those things... then can't you just by an s90?  I think you said you're church just purchased a mox right?  why did they get a mox instead of the mo?  there is probably close to $1000 difference in those boards... and based on how it's probably being used... couldn't the mo have done the job as well?

You have me mixed up with someone else. My church doesnt buy any of my equipment. All the bass gear and keyboard gear is ALL 100% mine. I bought a motif ES6 used, and got a better price than i wouldve found for an S90. I did serious research. I probably wouldve gotten a better deal for a rack, but it just was inconvenient should i need to take it to another church or use at home. Its not that I dont care, but time doesnt permit me to use the board for everything it can do. Maybe in the future sure, but i'm not the one to just foolishly waste money. If i was gonna do that i'd spend it on bass stuff rather than keys.

Not a strike against someone... just something to think about... something to consider.  I talk to great musicians (I mean awesome musicians) all the time that had NO IDEA what a multisample was... or a wave rom and that you could go in and build your OWN programs based on the wave rom.  not just combining voices to make multis (yamaha speak) or combining programs to make combis (krog speak)... but that you could go in and change the building blocks or a program or a voice and make WONDERFUL sounds.  Presets just show you kinda what the board is capable of.  If you go in a tweak things to your liking... it's just SO MUCH MORE FULFILLING!!!!  and then you won't sound like anyone else.  You have a sound that is unique to YOU!!!

i've met awesome musicians who dont even know what chords they're playing. bass players who cant do their own setup or know power requirements/compatibility of cabinets and bass heads. of course they wouldnt know about this stuff either. makes me mad sometimes because the folks that have all the time in the world wont bother, but guys like me who would get into the guts of these machines can barely find time for the basics of life. and i touched a bit on the multisample on the motif. so much to play around with and  explore. forgot to go home that evening.

[Ryan T]

IMO Korg Kronos is an awesome piece of equipment.  The sound library akone is amazing and the ability to tweak is extremely user friendly.  I consider this board's abilities on another level than a lot of other current workstations.  Keyboard mag has some decent articles on it.  Like any other equipment that deviates from a manufacturer's well-known line, I would not judge it without touching it, but that's just me.

[docjohn]

I used to subscribe to KM;to give them credibility as impartial-that's a big NO!

They have some players,but it's not even a magazine-it's 30 pages (if that of ads).One article-they tell you how good something is,next time -yada ,yada,yada.

Just a big rag-go +play this boards for self!

[berbie]

One thing is for sure: Korg has its own sound.  You can usually tell right away if you don't like it.  You don't have to puzzle over it because it is usually so different than the other main boards.(which are more similar to each other) I was once a Korg man and played a Karma for about eight years. I didn't like yamaha that much because of the bright tinkly pianos, but I developed a taste for them as time passed. Now I prefer yamaha, and next Roland.     

I understood the Kronos to be different, though.  I haven't tried one because I need one as much as I need a hole in my head, and I wouldn't pay $3000.00 for either.

Seems to me to be a matter of taste.

[ma1ne]

I wouldn't pay $3000.00 for either.

Thats exactly how I feel. Theyre way too expensive. I just had a revelation though. I will be saving up to get a MO8. By the time I buy it, it will be alot cheaper, hopefully. That board could honestly last me the rest of my life.

[Ryan T]

I used to subscribe to KM;to give them credibility as impartial-that's a big NO!

They have some players,but it's not even a magazine-it's 30 pages (if that of ads).One article-they tell you how good something is,next time -yada ,yada,yada.

Just a big rag-go +play this boards for self!

I respectfully disagree re KM.  Its been a beneficial tool for me, I've been a subscriber since '06 and thr format of the mag has somewhat changed in that span of five yrs.  I think its a knowledgeable source.  Is it impartial, heck I don't know many media sources that are completely impartial, but the mag reviews keyboards from a large range of manufacturers in sone shape or form.  I only recommended as a source for anyone looking for info on the board if they cannot try one out.

KM also prints credible music lessons monthly, which yiu can find for free on its website.

[GospelEngineer]

Thats exactly how I feel. Theyre way too expensive. I just had a revelation though. I will be saving up to get a MO8. By the time I buy it, it will be alot cheaper, hopefully. That board could honestly last me the rest of my life.

You can get a used Motif XS8 for close to the same price

[ma1ne]

You can get a used Motif XS8 for close to the same price

Really? Imma def research that. Im kinda considering getting a rack. Im not sure how they work, but people say its a cheaper yet effective route.

[Ryan T]

I saw a Motif XS Rack in GC one day for 800, never considered getting one until I saw that price, I thought it was a rare steal.

[ma1ne]

Yeah I looked at a couple online. I think Imma just get the MO8 and be done. I can do withought the extra equipment.