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Author Topic: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna  (Read 85352 times)

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #540 on: June 12, 2011, 07:59:19 AM »
Overall, I agree with Jonathan. We did discuss some of those points, as Jonathan mentioned. I think we all agree that their view is a little slanted and there were definitely a few places where I wrote in "RME" (rolling my eyes) or "what the what??"

But overall, I think the main issue is that, whether our execution today is productive or not, it's man-made and doesn't necessarily follow Biblical design in most plAces.

Of course there are some people who think that doesn't mAtter, and some who do, or some who think it matters to a degree.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #541 on: June 12, 2011, 05:33:20 PM »
Ok, this is getting ridiculous! Everytime I go to church or some church event, I'm thinking about all the discussions we've had during the book club (and thread extensions like the "call" to preach).....SMH!!!

Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #542 on: June 13, 2011, 08:57:05 AM »
Ok, this is getting ridiculous! Everytime I go to church or some church event, I'm thinking about all the discussions we've had during the book club (and thread extensions like the "call" to preach).....SMH!!!

ROFL!!!

Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #543 on: June 13, 2011, 08:58:26 AM »
I would like to make a motion that we push the schedule back by at least 4 days. (we still haven't heard from music bishop)

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #544 on: June 13, 2011, 09:04:13 AM »
I would like to make a motion that we push the schedule back by at least 4 days. (we still haven't heard from music bishop)

LOL! I definitely want to hear from him!

Btw, I want to hear from you phbrown on the "call" to preach in the "call" to preach thread in the lounge.

Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #545 on: June 13, 2011, 09:12:23 AM »
So we've talked a little about chapter 5, particularly the "classism" of preaching. But I want to ask some more questions and get you all's feedback on:

1. Did you agree or disagree with the author's view of ordination being a fallacy and that it creates a "special caste of Christianity?"


Its been a while since I read chapter 5 ... so I may be off base with some of my answer. I do not believe it is the ordination that creates teh "special caste of Christianty" I believe it is us the people. Who are carnal minded who like to see something physical which we can imagine how our God actually looks like.

He says "In the first century, the laying on of hands merely meant the endorsement or affirmation of a function, not the installment into an office or the giving of special status." Do you believe that the current system of ordination in many denominations and organizations support the idea of ordination being a "giving of special status?"

Not that the ordination causes the special status, again it is the people, which make up the denominations and organizations that bestow the special status

 Do you believe ordination can be done without the "hierarchal" attitude? Why or why not? sadly no, maybe if it was done in secret but that would defeat its purpose of announcing to everyone your purpose


2. Calvin and some of the Reformers argued that the pastor when speaking speaks in the name of God and that "A Christian preacher is a minister of God who is set apart, yea, he is an angel of God, a very bishop sent by God, a savior of many people, a king and prince in the Kingdom of Christ. Do you agree or disagree with the pastor being viewed in this light? way over my head ... just way over


 Do you believe that questioning or challenging the pastor is a form of contempt or ridicule? I personally experienced this growing up when i was a teenager, i challenged and questioned my pastor during sunday school :) lol looking back I see how silly I was being. I felt .... maybe it was contempt... that they were too old and didn't know what they were reading. (I was wrong, true they may not have knew what certain words meant but they knew from the context what the scripture was talking about). so no it is not a form of contempt or ridicule provided it is done in the correct forum such as bible study. If you decide to do it like the pharisees did Jesus then yes it is a form of contempt or ridicule because you are attempting to apply greek rhetoric to set up the pastor and prove your point.

Why or why not? see above


3. According to the author, Luther argued that "The Christian Congregation never should assemble unless God's Word is preached and prayer is made, no matter for how brief a time this may be." Do you agree or disagree? Disagree, which is why I am not lutheran

4. Has the current system of pastoring put too many burdens and responsibilities (preaching, administration, visiting the sick, visiting members, etc) on him or her? Explain. Yes!  Shucks our current form of being a musican puts too many burdens on some MoM/musicans. But that is only because of the 80/20 rule *sigh*

5. Does the "professionalization" of ministry help the church, hurt the church or no harm at all? I personally believe it hurts

6. What can be done to decrease the stress of the contemporary pastor's job? reverse the 80/20 rule ... now how to do that I don't know

Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #546 on: June 14, 2011, 07:50:06 AM »
never mind about changing the date, those chapters flew by ... maybe cause I skipped a bunch of pages but yeah it was an easy read :D

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #547 on: June 14, 2011, 08:26:38 AM »
SMH.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #548 on: June 14, 2011, 10:40:04 AM »
@LaRue what's your opinion on ordination, as it relates to what the author talked about?

Btw, what's the next on our discussion agenda?

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #549 on: June 14, 2011, 11:05:55 AM »
Ordination is man-made. The Church was fine before it, but our way is supposedly better. The more pomp & circumstance, the more fluff and additives, the more flesh on parade, fake spirituality and crap, the better. ::) Whatever.

The next topic of discussion is gonna be Chs 6-9, I think? Idk. The schedule is on page 1 of this thread.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

Offline phbrown

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Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #551 on: June 14, 2011, 12:31:33 PM »
The next topic of discussion is gonna be Chs 6-9, I think? Idk. The schedule is on page 1 of this thread.

Yep you are correct 6-9 is slated for thursday.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #552 on: June 14, 2011, 12:42:46 PM »
Yep you are correct 6-9 is slated for thursday.

Wow! I'm behind for the first time....LOL!

#life

Offline phbrown

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #553 on: June 14, 2011, 01:09:30 PM »
Wow! I'm behind for the first time....LOL!

#life

lol, it happens

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #554 on: June 14, 2011, 01:26:33 PM »
I think it's disastrous to discuss this book with folks who haven't read it. What church person wouldn't think it's a bunch of outlandish gibberish if they haven't read it?

Discussing topics and subjects, sure. Discussing the book - with folks who haven't read it? ?/? I just don't get it. It's an obvious disaster. And none of us is scholarly enough to make the case the authors made, so all we're doing is putting it in our own words with isn't nearly compelling. It's just havoc.

That's all. I'm just venting. No need to pay me any mind. It's like trying to convince someone of the truth of Black History when they haven't studied it for themselves, so all they know is what the white school systems taught them for decades.
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #555 on: June 14, 2011, 01:30:14 PM »
I think it's disastrous to discuss this book with folks who haven't read it. What church person wouldn't think it's a bunch of outlandish gibberish if they haven't read it?

Discussing topics and subjects, sure. Discussing the book - with folks who haven't read it? ?/? I just don't get it. It's an obvious disaster. And none of us is scholarly enough to make the case the authors made, so all we're doing is putting it in our own words with isn't nearly compelling. It's just havoc.

That's all. I'm just venting. No need to pay me any mind. It's like trying to convince someone of the truth of Black History when they haven't studied it for themselves, so all they know is what the white school systems taught them for decades.

Lesson learned! #thatisall

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #556 on: June 14, 2011, 01:47:04 PM »
Don't pay me any mind, Churchy. That wasn't @ you and you have a right to post whatever you want to discuss. Seriously, that wasn't a correction aimed at you. I was just venting. And I should've stayed out of it like I intended to in the first place.

Again Churchy, I'm not talking @ you at all. I promise. You're good. :)
When you're in love you don't want to fall asleep bc reality is finally better than your dreams.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #557 on: June 14, 2011, 01:47:52 PM »
Don't pay me any mind, Churchy. That wasn't @ you and you have a right to post whatever you want to discuss. Seriously, that wasn't a correction aimed at you. I was just venting. And I should've stayed out of it like I intended to in the first place.

Again Churchy, I'm not talking @ you at all. I promise. You're good. :)

Oh...

Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #558 on: June 14, 2011, 01:56:13 PM »
I think it's disastrous to discuss this book with folks who haven't read it. What church person wouldn't think it's a bunch of outlandish gibberish if they haven't read it?

Discussing topics and subjects, sure. Discussing the book - with folks who haven't read it? ?/? I just don't get it. It's an obvious disaster. And none of us is scholarly enough to make the case the authors made, so all we're doing is putting it in our own words with isn't nearly compelling. It's just havoc.

That's all. I'm just venting. No need to pay me any mind. It's like trying to convince someone of the truth of Black History when they haven't studied it for themselves, so all they know is what the white school systems taught them for decades.

Do we have to follow your outline, and read the text you are reading just to understand basic....oh nevermind.  It's your thread.  I found that to be...

:)  Going back to the general thread where regular people can discuss topics that they....
Nevermind.

blyempowered

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Re: May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna
« Reply #559 on: June 14, 2011, 02:03:37 PM »
Do we have to follow your outline, and read the text you are reading just to understand basic....oh nevermind.  It's your thread.  I found that to be...

:)  Going back to the general thread where regular people can discuss topics that they....
Nevermind.

Ummm I don't get what you're saying....clarify please!
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