May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna

[phbrown]

No, I think he's saying that Jesus won't force our hands so as to take over when He doesn't appear to be welcomed the way He wants to be welcomed. Remember that our God is a jealous God. He won't have any other gods before Him (and we can make an order of service, a pastor, a song, an auxiliary, or any other idol into a god) and He won't compete for our worship.

I don't think Jesus would take charge of a worship service if He wasn't welcomed in it as the center of it. Plus, can we even call it a worship service if He's not at the center?

good point(s)

[phbrown]

According to this last quote, preaching boils down to 2 categories: proclamation and pastoral teaching. In your opinion, how much of contemporary black church preaching falls in any of these 2 categories?

33% and 33% respectively ... except on Easter than its mostly proclamation ... Mother's day there is very little teaching

[blyempowered]

33% and 33% respectively ... except on Easter than its mostly proclamation ... Mother's day there is very little teaching

Interesting....

[blyempowered]

Smh just heard that a pastor that just got married wants an office for the leading lady built inside the church....*sigh*

[LaylaMonroe]

Smh just heard that a pastor that just got married wants an office for the leading lady built inside the church....*sigh*

That's not uncommon, dear. *shrug*

Just about every church I know of has or wants an office for the pastor's wife.

[blyempowered]

Smh #hotmess

[LaylaMonroe]

My pastor got married in November. He mentioned to me that he wanted to convert one of the classrooms into the FL's office. I said, "for what???"

I mean, I truly didn't get it. He said that his office was too small for the both of them, but he doesn't mind sharing for a while... I still don't get it. She's the P&W leader (and one of the best I know, while I'm on the subject), and that's it. That's what she does. P&W leaders need offices??? She uses his office to freshen up before service, apply/re-apply makeup, fix her hair, drink her tea, etc. Ummm...

SMH.

So... are we finished discussing Ch3??

[phbrown]

That's not uncommon, dear. *shrug*

Just about every church I know of has or wants an office for the pastor's wife.

Not saying it is right but coming from a married viewpoint

it is an easy way to maintain a marriage by working together for the kingdom of God. (hehe i threw a cliche in there ROFL)

[phbrown]

So... are we finished discussing Ch3??

I am ... unless someone comes up with a great point to discuss

[LaylaMonroe]

I am ... unless someone comes up with a great point to discuss

Same here.

That was quick. Okey dokey... on to Chs4-8. I'm gonna start reading tonight.

[blyempowered]

LaRue give me your take on the preaching question I asked.

[LaylaMonroe]

I can't really say much on that subject because I haven't studied it yet. At this point, I'd be speaking from my traditional knowledge and what was passed down to me - and I don't want to do that ever again.

Also, I think that the question of which percentage is proclamation and which is teaching will depend largely on the denomination, organization, and local church. There's a lot more teaching in the WOF and SDA churches than in most other black denominations and organizations. There's a lot LESS teaching in the Apostolic churches and Pentecostal churches. So it kinda depends.

[lordluvr]

I've fallen behind.  Except for a few minutes last night, I haven't picked up the book in a week.  I'll try to contribute to chapter 4's discussion.  Sorry guys.

[blyempowered]

@LaRue I understand.

@LL its all good!

[LaylaMonroe]

I've fallen behind.  Except for a few minutes last night, I haven't picked up the book in a week.  I'll try to contribute to chapter 4's discussion.  Sorry guys.

Fi shame!

LOL. j/k. I understand. I had a hard time with Ch3 myself, but if it helps any, once you get past the historical part (I think it's after Finney), it becomes a MUCH easier read. I flew through it after that part.

[LaylaMonroe]

One question that I (think I) posed earlier and hasn't been answered is "what was the mission of the NT church???" I'm not sure if I typed that here or if it's just jotted down in my notes, but it's worth discussing... I gotta find the page in the book where I wrote that so I can give it to you in context.

[phbrown]

One question that I (think I) posed earlier and hasn't been answered is "what was the mission of the NT church???" I'm not sure if I typed that here or if it's just jotted down in my notes, but it's worth discussing... I gotta find the page in the book where I wrote that so I can give it to you in context.

Not really sure now but is it...

Matt. 28:19-20 KJV

 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

[blyempowered]

Not really sure now but is it...

Matt. 28:19-20 KJV

 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Yes! That's a huge part of the mission.

To add, one part of our mission is to be the vehicle of Christ in the world. In other words, the church should be the instrument God uses to express Himself in the world. Therefore our acts of service, christ-like attitude and care for one another is part of being God's instrument. Another part of our mission is to glorify God in everything that is said and done. Again, when we do our works and service it is for God to be glorified. Ephesians 4:11-16 is very good in explaining the role of the particular gifts mentioned and how it relates to our perfection in the faith. Lastly, I would say the mission of the NT church is to be the hands and feet of Christ (kind of relates to being God's instrument in the world) as we see in 1 Corinthians 12 yet understanding that none of it matters if not done in love (1 Corinthians 13).

Just my 2 cents. 

[LaylaMonroe]

I found it. P71, last sentence:

Yet it does not map well with the mind-set of the first-century Christians who did not appear to be pressured into trying to get the entire world saved in one generation.

So there, the authors were criticizing those who endeavored to save the world in one generation. They said that this goal was different from the first century church. So it made me wonder: what WAS the goal/mission of the first Church?

[phbrown]

I found it. P71, last sentence:

So there, the authors were criticizing those who endeavored to save the world in one generation. They said that this goal was different from the first century church. So it made me wonder: what WAS the goal/mission of the first Church?

I thought the author's view was the fact that they were concentrating only on saving people in one generation. And not helping them develop and grow as Christians