Students come to school dressed as Klansmen... with teacher's permission

[sjonathan02]

Still wont matter.  Lets use the stereotype that black ppl love chicken.  Can you find enough info that EVERY black person likes chicken?  I can name atleast 10 that dont right now.  So how do you find that supportive information, AND how much is enough to generalize a stereotype over a whole culture of ppl?

I believe he's saying that if one can find more people that fit the stereotype than don't, the stereotype can stand. *kanyeshrug*

[B3Wannabe]

Still wont matter.  Lets use the stereotype that black ppl love chicken.  Can you find enough info that EVERY black person likes chicken?  I can name atleast 10 that dont right now.  So how do you find that supportive information, AND how much is enough to generalize a stereotype over a whole culture of ppl?

I believe he's saying that if one can find more people that fit the stereotype than don't, the stereotype can stand. *kanyeshrug*

Right.

...I never said that a stereotype CANNOT be wrong. I just said that it's possible for it to be true....and I'm expanding it to be used for more than just people.

[BassbyGrace]

I believe he's saying that if one can find more people that fit the stereotype than don't, the stereotype can stand. *kanyeshrug*

Right.

...I never said that a stereotype CANNOT be wrong. I just said that it's possible for it to be true....and I'm expanding it to be used for more than just people.

That I understand .  That is the basis of my inquiry on what parameters one can use to positive identify that a stereotype is true.  The only way a stereotype can be true is if every subject (black ppl) contained in the stereotype (love chicken) is true.  So how many ppl are needed to qualify the stereotype? 100 ppl? 1000?  THAT is my question.  And in this thread, we are mainly referring to ppl. 

[B3Wannabe]

That I understand .  That is the basis of my inquiry on what parameters one can use to positive identify that a stereotype is true.  The only way a stereotype can be true is if every subject (black ppl) contained in the stereotype (love chicken) is true.  So how many ppl are needed to qualify the stereotype? 100 ppl? 1000?  THAT is my question.  And in this thread, we are mainly referring to ppl. 

Arbitrary.

In general, a stereotype is nothing more than a statistic, which always has a possibility of not being true in all cases.

[lordluvr]

Arbitrary.

In general, a stereotype is nothing more than a statistic, which always has a possibility of not being true in all cases.

What's arbitrary are stereotypes, period.  They aren't statistics. They're suppositions at best.

[T-Block]

What's arbitrary are stereotypes, period.  They aren't statistics. They're suppositions at best.

AHHHH, this is what I wanted to say, lol.

[B3Wannabe]

What's arbitrary are stereotypes, period.  They aren't statistics. They're suppositions at best.

Bah. You just repeated what I said. You can't disagree with me by using a word that means the same thing.

A "supposition" is a hypothesis, a hypothesis is an assumption, and a stereotype is also an assumption.

Here is the logic:

1. If a stereotype is an assumption, and a hypothesis is an assumption, then a hypothesis is a stereotype.
2. If research and statistics are means of forming hypothesis, then research and statistics are means of forming stereotypes.
3. If a hypothesis can be a fact, then a stereotype can be a fact.

The logic is flawless, even if you don't accept it.

Now, if the research is flawed, then the hypothesis/supposition/assumption/stereotype will be flawed. If a stereotype is only based on guesses, then the likelihood of it being true could diminish to zero.

[churchyreal]

Bah. You just repeated what I said. You can't disagree with me by using a word that means the same thing.

A "supposition" is a hypothesis, a hypothesis is an assumption, and a stereotype is also an assumption.

Here is the logic:

1. If a stereotype is an assumption, and a hypothesis is an assumption, then a hypothesis is a stereotype.
2. If research and statistics are means of forming hypothesis, then research and statistics are means of forming stereotypes.
3. If a hypothesis can be a fact, then a stereotype can be a fact.

The logic is flawless, even if you don't accept it.

Now, if the research is flawed, then the hypothesis/supposition/assumption/stereotype will be flawed. If a stereotype is only based on guesses, then the likelihood of it being true could diminish to zero.

Oooooo I'm loving this conversation.

I think we have to remember as well that statistics can still be skewed to fit a particular hypothesis. Yet I would ask (looking at specific stereotype) how can you do a statistical research project on if all black people are lazy? Is that even statistically possible? Most of that is based on perception and not necesssarily statistical data. That logic can still be flawed because a theory can be created through the research and hypothesis.

In other words, a stereotype, to me, cannot be a fact unless it is unequivocally proven because I would still argue that stereotypes are big about perception versus reality.

Hope I didn't confuse anyone or myself.

[B3Wannabe]

When you're doing research, and you're presented with data that doesn't fit your model, then you have to adjust your hypothesis to account for the variance.

Example:

Area = Length x Width

...unless you're calculating the area for a triangle, circle, etc.

So...when you hear a stereotype, you're presented with a hypothesis. The facts a that support it have to account for all variances for it to be true. If not, then it's either false, or lacks enough support.

[BassbyGrace]

When you're doing research, and you're presented with data that doesn't fit your model, then you have to adjust your hypothesis to account for the variance.

Example:

Area = Length x Width

...unless you're calculating the area for a triangle, circle, etc.

So...when you hear a stereotype, you're presented with a hypothesis. The facts a that support it have to account for all variances for it to be true. If not, then it's either false, or lacks enough support.

That pretty much validates my notion that stereotypes are unfactual assumptions.  You will never be about to account for all the variances, therefore they will always lack enough support.  Many stereotypes in the world have come from propaganda in the first place.

two examples:

"All the Korean ppl Ive ever met wear glasses"-Not a stereotype, just a fact based on experience.  Limited to actual encounters. 

"All Koreans love rice"  Stereotype.  You cant find enough evidence to support the assumption because, for one, you dont know every Korean in the world, let alone ask if they love rice.

[B3Wannabe]

That pretty much validates my notion that stereotypes are unfactual assumptions.  You will never be about to account for all the variances, therefore they will always lack enough support.  Many stereotypes in the world have come from propaganda in the first place.

two examples:

"All the Korean ppl Ive ever met wear glasses"-Not a stereotype, just a fact based on experience.  Limited to actual encounters. 

"All Koreans love rice"  Stereotype.  You cant find enough evidence to support the assumption because, for one, you dont know every Korean in the world, let alone ask if they love rice.

That's not true. You could survey all Koreans. The question is if someone would take the time to do it.

As with any other statistic, the process would be to limit the survey to a smaller group, but one large enough to accurately represent the whole. You could then take this data and logically infer a conclusion about the whole.

[churchyreal]

When you're doing research, and you're presented with data that doesn't fit your model, then you have to adjust your hypothesis to account for the variance.

Example:

Area = Length x Width

...unless you're calculating the area for a triangle, circle, etc.

So...when you hear a stereotype, you're presented with a hypothesis. The facts a that support it have to account for all variances for it to be true. If not, then it's either false, or lacks enough support.

The academia world, especially in post modernism would argue that theories/hypothesis are relative and not based on facts.

That's not true. You could survey all Koreans. The question is if someone would take the time to do it.

As with any other statistic, the process would be to limit the survey to a smaller group, but one large enough to accurately represent the whole. You could then take this data and logically infer a conclusion about the whole.

Idk about that. I see your point but I don't know if the results would be generalizable. Lord Jesus we getting into basic theory here.

I still think that the problem with stereotypes is when we try to generalize certain characteristics upon an entire group.

[B3Wannabe]

The academia world, especially in post modernism would argue that theories/hypothesis are relative and not based on facts.

Idk about that. I see your point but I don't know if the results would be generalizable. Lord Jesus we getting into basic theory here.

I still think that the problem with stereotypes is when we try to generalize certain characteristics upon an entire group.

...and all this because some kids went to school wearing KKK uniforms.

[churchyreal]

...and all this because some kids went to school wearing KKK uniforms.

What do you mean?.....lol! Sorry just a little lost. 

[sjonathan02]

What do you mean?.....lol! Sorry just a little lost. 

I'll tell it to you the way I tell it to my students...reread...slower, this time. You should be able to find where you got lost.

That's not true. You could survey all Koreans. The question is if someone would take the time to do it.

As with any other statistic, the process would be to limit the survey to a smaller group, but one large enough to accurately represent the whole. You could then take this data and logically infer a conclusion about the whole.

I think you jump the gun concluding that supposition and stereotype are the same or even similar. Which leads me to take back my 'indeed' from LL.

[B3Wannabe]

What do you mean?.....lol! Sorry just a little lost. 

Don't worry. All will be explained on page 6.

[churchyreal]

Don't worry. All will be explained on page 6.

 

I'll tell it to you the way I tell it to my students...reread...slower, this time. You should be able to find where you got lost.

Ok got it! Thanks! 

[B3Wannabe]

I'll tell it to you the way I tell it to my students...reread...slower, this time. You should be able to find where you got lost.



I think you jump the gun concluding that supposition and stereotype are the same or even similar. Which leads me to take back my 'indeed' from LL.

Now, I'm lost!...waiting for the finale. * twiddling thumbs*

[kodacolor]

That's not true. You could survey all Koreans. The question is if someone would take the time to do it.

As with any other statistic, the process would be to limit the survey to a smaller group, but one large enough to accurately represent the whole. You could then take this data and logically infer a conclusion about the whole.

IRT bold: I'm not exactly sure how someone would go about that and nothing guarantees that every person asked to take part will take part.  If only one person decides they don't want to do it, that ruins the entire survey.

IRT purple: There's a stereotypes that says black women are loud and rude gold-diggers, fat people are lazy, and college students do drugs and get drunk.  One could say that a lot of people in each category fit the stereotype.  I happen to be a black woman, fat, and a college student.  I really don't think it's fair for someone to throw those things on me because I happen to fall into the categories I fall in to even though there are people who fulfill the stereotype.  In my experience, people use stereotypes as a way of deciding if they want to get to know someone.  They're assuming a person's personality based on what they think is the norm for that type of person based on how they look.  That's not fair.

[churchyreal]

IRT bold: I'm not exactly sure how someone would go about that and nothing guarantees that every person asked to take part will take part.  If only one person decides they don't want to do it, that ruins the entire survey.

IRT purple: There's a stereotypes that says black women are loud and rude gold-diggers, fat people are lazy, and college students do drugs and get drunk.  One could say that a lot of people in each category fit the stereotype.  I happen to be a black woman, fat, and a college student.  I really don't think it's fair for someone to throw those things on me because I happen to fall into the categories I fall in to even though there are people who fulfill the stereotype.  In my experience, people use stereotypes as a way of deciding if they want to get to know someone.  They're assuming a person's personality based on what they think is the norm for that type of person based on how they look.  That's not fair.

This, to both points.