I want to know the real reason why musicans need top pay at a church?

[L.V.Drumma]

They were Levites also.

???

[dude-on-drums]

Let me break this down so it can forever be broken.

You can not, should not, ever point to scriptures to justify why you should get paid.  Levites were a certain tribe of Jews with a special arrangement with God.  We as people are not today's Levites.  That covenant is over.  Dead.  Gone.  The temple is destroyed.  Move on people.

I'll say it again.  Every Jew that was a musician or singer in a temple was not under a covenant.  They were not all guarantied food, spices and clothing.  They were not under the covenant to recieve tithes.  That covenant was for that time, that specific tribe of Jews and now it is over.  Its been over lol.  The temple was destroyed and so was the end of paying tithes to the Levites.  Its a done deal. 

If you want to get paid for what you do in church, then you need to submit documented accomplishments like any other job.  Show your worth.  Where is your resume?  Where is your discography?  Now get this...the church owes you NOTHING!!!  Period.

[A sponge]

even with all your accomplishments and your resume they owe you nothing...Most churches pay that much cause without the musicians church would be empty the tithes be low and no money....Alot of todays Christian worship music and raise there finger when the words up. I say no music for the Christian church or one year just word and you will never ask a question like that.......resume...

[Gibby]

even with all your accomplishments and your resume they owe you nothing...Most churches pay that much cause without the musicians church would be empty the tithes be low and no money....Alot of todays Christian worship music and raise there finger when the words up. I say no music for the Christian church or one year just word and you will never ask a question like that.......resume...

I always thought of it like this: The music brings 'em in and the preaching keeps 'em.

[dude-on-drums]

Choke or swallow, here's your meal for today.

Paid preachers and musicians are optional expenses that a church decides to have.  Here's the break down.

Lets establish that ministry in church is 100% voluntary.  There is'nt one scripture in the bible where God demands ministers to get paid by the church through tithes or offerings or money.  Its not biblical at all.  Paying people in ministry is a personal decision by the church members.  The amount of pay is negotiated according to the individual's terms but, in no way, shape, form or fashion should anyone run to the bible to enforce paying or getting paid.

Now, the Mosaic Law (which is dead and gone and not applicable in this world) is the reason why most people in ministry demand to get paid by the church.  Ministers of today take it upon themselves to enforce a law of tithing that was only given by God to Jews under the Mosaic Law, and only meant for Levites to recieve.  Is it starting to make sense why people consider themselves Levites now?  If they do that, it puts them in the bracket to recieve tithes and offerings (which they also take upon themselves to interpret to be money.)  This is why modern day Jews do not pay tithes anymore.  The Law of Moses (the Mosaic Law) no longer applies to them or anyone else.

This is a trick.  Its a manipulation of God's word to make ministers rich and to make church members feel like (by the law of God) they owe them 10% of their checks.  In addition, musicians take on this same attitude of "I'm a Levite too," so guess what, the church owes them a piece of the pie as well.

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll say it again.  I dont care what part of ministry you're in.  Weather you're the pastor or an usher.  The church owes you nothing.  Initially, your services are voluntary.  Any compensation from your services is by the mercy and generosity of the church.  Not by God's law.

[betnich]

So I take it you don't believe in OT tithing, either? Interesting...

[under13]

So I take it you don't believe in OT tithing, either? Interesting...

after reading this thread, I dont take what he says very seriously

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,71948.40.html

[fretai03]

Hmmm... Not sure I'm with you big bro.

Why would God create the Mosaic Law that would only apply to people in one time period of history and not to us? Doesn't make sense. We may not be bound by the same cultural rules (ie killing lambs and doves for sacrifices etc), however, it doesn't mean that we are to go around worshipping other idols, stealing and murdering people.

God still expects us to be good humans/representatives for Him and that is why the Mosaic Law (at its most simplistic and basic form) provides the platform for us as human beings. And to me that is why its still relevant today.

Are you also saying that when we get to heaven we won't be bound by the Law that God himself created? If yes, to me that's dangerous as well cause it sounds like you're making it alright to steal and murder and worship other things when we get into heaven...

[sjonathan02]

let's see if they can play some shout music...or follow the preacher??? Nobody comes to a church and says..."boy them ushers ushered me into the presence!!!" 

As for the singers and such, yes I think they should be paid.  But I guess if it called for it, the pastor can get up and ask the congregation to sing with him/her, without a choir.

Uh, how 'bout, 'No'. 

[dude-on-drums]

With all due respect Fred, God did not give Moses instructions to enforce the entire world to pay tithes.  Only the Jews in his tribe were instructed to do so and only the Levites were permitted to receive tithes.  Not every preacher in the world.

[L.V.Drumma]

Choke or swallow, here's your meal for today.

Paid preachers and musicians are optional expenses that a church decides to have.  Here's the break down.

Lets establish that ministry in church is 100% voluntary.  There is'nt one scripture in the bible where God demands ministers to get paid by the church through tithes or offerings or money.  Its not biblical at all.  Paying people in ministry is a personal decision by the church members.  The amount of pay is negotiated according to the individual's terms but, in no way, shape, form or fashion should anyone run to the bible to enforce paying or getting paid.

Now, the Mosaic Law (which is dead and gone and not applicable in this world) is the reason why most people in ministry demand to get paid by the church.  Ministers of today take it upon themselves to enforce a law of tithing that was only given by God to Jews under the Mosaic Law, and only meant for Levites to recieve.  Is it starting to make sense why people consider themselves Levites now?  If they do that, it puts them in the bracket to recieve tithes and offerings (which they also take upon themselves to interpret to be money.)  This is why modern day Jews do not pay tithes anymore.  The Law of Moses (the Mosaic Law) no longer applies to them or anyone else.

This is a trick.  Its a manipulation of God's word to make ministers rich and to make church members feel like (by the law of God) they owe them 10% of their checks.  In addition, musicians take on this same attitude of "I'm a Levite too," so guess what, the church owes them a piece of the pie as well.

I've said it once, I've said it twice and I'll say it again.  I dont care what part of ministry you're in.  Weather you're the pastor or an usher.  The church owes you nothing.  Initially, your services are voluntary.  Any compensation from your services is by the mercy and generosity of the church.  Not by God's law.

I agree.  I hate when I hear about pastors telling the members they'll be blessed if they give them money.  And if they dont, then they wont receive as many blessings. Its a shame.  And if members came to a majority of the pastors asking for help his hands will be closed. And IMO if a musician isnt a professional then asking/demanding for money isnt an option. Like Kevin said, its optional. But, on the other hand if a church wants a professional music team then yeah, most likely itll have to pay its team.  Even when I make it to the professional level I would rather play for a church with a awesome, fruitful, and dynamic ministry for free or low pay rate and be happy doing it, than for a church when its the "same ole, same ole" and good things happen occassionaly(shouting, speaking in tongues, healings, strong presence of God, etc) and making big change.  I do it for the love.  And for the person/people that said receiving currency will help you grow, you can grow just as effectively without being paid.  I dont know if you/yall meant this or not but what makes money the key factor in determing whether or not you grow in your gift? Did you mean investing and buying high-end equipment? If not, then that doesnt sound like true love for the craft to me. Sounds more like love for the money with certain personal standards and requirements to be met.  And again IMO.

[L.V.Drumma]

Uh, how 'bout, 'No'. 

Lol. Aye some pastors and congregations that ive witnessed be gettin' it though.

[robdown]

...and I agree.  That's why I can't really debate with you on this one. lol  Too many people are "pimpin" the church.  Even some Pastors.  Shoot, we should come up with a show called "Church's Shore" cause this is a real "situation."  lol

awesome bro!

[under13]

awesome bro!

lol

[JFunky]

...tithing was done before Moses yall. lol. Tithing was not established with the law.

[Steelpulz]

Let me break this down so it can forever be broken.

You can not, should not, ever point to scriptures to justify why you should get paid.  Levites were a certain tribe of Jews with a special arrangement with God.  We as people are not today's Levites.  That covenant is over.  Dead.  Gone.  The temple is destroyed.  Move on people.

I'll say it again.  Every Jew that was a musician or singer in a temple was not under a covenant.  They were not all guarantied food, spices and clothing.  They were not under the covenant to recieve tithes.  That covenant was for that time, that specific tribe of Jews and now it is over.  Its been over lol.  The temple was destroyed and so was the end of paying tithes to the Levites.  Its a done deal. 

If you want to get paid for what you do in church, then you need to submit documented accomplishments like any other job.  Show your worth.  Where is your resume?  Where is your discography?  Now get this...the church owes you NOTHING!!!  Period.

You make some pretty bold statements. But, you do not cite any authorities to back up your statements. So they lack any credibility. You, of course, are entitled to your opinion.

Regarding your remarks in bold, a musician should present the documents, if any, that the church asks for. No church that I have ministered with has asked for any of the documents that you mention. If the church and I reach an agreement then we do owe each other accoding to the terms of the agreement.

[dude-on-drums]

...tithing was done before Moses yall. lol. Tithing was not established with the law.

ha ha this is true.  There were accounts of tithing here and there but they were all personal decisions to tithe.  As far as the covenant between God and the Levites, it wasn't optional for the tribe of Moses to tithe.  It was commanded by God.  That was the only biblical command from God to tithe and that command was not given to the entire world.  It was given specifically to the tribe of Moses for the Levites.

[fretai03]

With all due respect Fred, God did not give Moses instructions to enforce the entire world to pay tithes.  Only the Jews in his tribe were instructed to do so and only the Levites were permitted to receive tithes.  Not every preacher in the world.

Fair enough bro, however, using that same argument means that Jesus didn't come down to earth for us just for those who were there in His time.

[dude-on-drums]

Fred I can't go back and forth with you on this.  You have to read and study to understand that some of the information in the Bible is timeless.  Some of it was also meant only for specific times and situations.  Some of it applies now and some of it doesn't.  I wouldn't use that same argument to limit Jesus' teachings to a specific time period because He has global jurisdiction.  Moses however didn't.  He governed his tribe, not the world.

[robdown]

There's no biblical support for musicians getting paid in today's church. If you're bloodline doesn't trace back to Levi - you're not a Levite. You may have an agreement with your church to get paid to play, but that's all it is...an agreement. Trying to hustle a church into making them pay you based on the "Levitical Order" <--lol, is seriously flawed.

Why we gotta be so deep!? If you want to get paid to play, find a church that pays. If you want to play for free, then play for free! Stay out of the next man's bidness!

I think tithing will be a forever divisive issue, one side will never convince the other. My take on it is unless the ENTIRE act of tithing is exercised (read Deuteronomy and Numbers - yes the whole of both books but focus on chapters Dt.12, Dt.14, Dt.26, and Nm.18 to get a good understanding of tithing), we can't take out a piece of tithing and slap people with the dreaded curse in Malachi (Mal wasn't even talking to the nation of Israel, he was addressing the high priests...aahhh digression).

I DO believe we were instructed to give though...see the instructions Paul gave one of the early churches in Corinth. 1 Corinthians 16:2, this is the scripture I base my personal giving from.