In Need of a Little Direction

[NJDBalla]

Whats up, fam. I've finally made the decision to learn theory, for real.I've been putting it off for too long I've basically the mastered the "Learn Every Key Series" but I think its time for me to learn how to recognize chords. For instance, how do I know a chord is dominant, or a m9 or M7? I know there is a thread lying around here somewhere about it, I couldn't find it though...

                       Thx in advance,
                                    NJD

[SirTJ]

See if these links help:

http://www.hearandplay.com/main/at-last-a-foolproof-method-for-naming-chords - Part One
http://www.hearandplay.com/main/heres-a-foolproof-guide-thatll-have-you-naming-chords-correctly-tonight - Part Two

[sjonathan02]

Recognizing chord quality (maj, min, etc.) comes from lots of listening.


Doing the same thing on paper takes a lot of reading of sheet music.



It takes practice. Lots of practice.

[T-Block]

There are many ways to recognize a dominant chord.  For me, there are 2 sure-fire ways to tell.  The first way is the presence of the 3rd and m7th.  If both of those notes are present, no matter what the other notes are u have a dominant chord.  The second way is if you are playing a major chord that is normally minor, then it is a dominant chord, specifically a secondary dominant chord.

Some basic rules you can follow are:

Major, dominant, & augmented chords will have the regular 3rd present.

Minor chords will have the flat 3rd present.

Major 7th and on (maj9, maj 11, etc.) chords will have the regular 3rd and regular 7th present.

Dominant 7th and on (dom 9, #5/#9, etc.) chords will have the regular 3rd and flat 7th present.

Minor 7th and on (min9, min11, etc.) chords will have the flat 3rd and flat 7th present.

Diminished chords will have the flat 3rd and flat 5th present.  Then with the fully diminished or diminished 7th chord u will have the double flat 7th present.

If you can remember all those basic rules above, you will be able to tell 90% of the time what chord you have.  There's also your ear as well.  If you can't tell by looking at the notes, your ear can tell you.

[NJDBalla]

Thx TJ that helped somewhat. I now understand what a triad is and that(in the key of C)It must consist of some kind of C E and G
Ex.
Major - C-E-G
Minor - C-Eb-G

If the chord gets bigger than a triad then it must have some kind of B.
Major7 - C-E-G-B

I got confused about the Minor7 until I read one of Mr. Block's posts. Something to do with the 7th of the minor scale(i think)
so...
Minor7 - C-Eb-G-Bb

Of course there are inversions too.

There are many ways to recognize a dominant chord.  For me, there are 2 sure-fire ways to tell.  The first way is the presence of the 3rd and m7th.  If both of those notes are present, no matter what the other notes are u have a dominant chord.  The second way is if you are playing a major chord that is normally minor, then it is a dominant chord, specifically a secondary dominant chord.

Thx T, but how do I know that something is minor such as a m7th?

I know how to minor a major, flat the 3rd(right?)

So to minor a 7th would I flat it? like for the key of C the m7th would be Bb?

So C-E-G-Bb would be a dom7, right?

Srry for so many q's

Diminished chords
Going by your rules, I have that a Cdim (is that the right notation?) is..   C-Eb-Gb
Ok then to make that a fully diminished chord, I would add an A, right? so... C-Eb-Gb-A

Major 7th and on
Ok
Cmaj7 - C-E-G-B
Cmaj9 - C-D-E-G? It doesn't have the regular 7th but is it still right?
Cmaj11 - C-E-F-G?  That can't be right

I fully understand maj and min, maj7 and min7 chords, and diminished, I think. Could you explain the augmented, dominant th's, min9 and upand maj9 and up in greater detail please.
"Bear" with me, i ask a lot of q's.

                   Thx for your help,
                                     NJD

[berbie]

For me, the easiest way to play diminshed 7 chords is to place my thumb on the key that I want, and play three additional notes exactly 3 half steps apart each.

[T-Block]

Thx TJ that helped somewhat. I now understand what a triad is and that(in the key of C)It must consist of some kind of C E and G
Ex.
Major - C-E-G
Minor - C-Eb-G

If the chord gets bigger than a triad then it must have some kind of B.
Major7 - C-E-G-B

Be careful here NJ.  Key has nothing to do with naming a chord.  ALL chords are built in thirds, which is the same as every other letter.  So, no matter what key you are in, any kind of C chord starts with C-E-G of some sort.  Just like any D chord starts with D-F-A of some sort, etc. The chords build and build on thirds until you return back to your starting note.  So, using C u got:

C-E-G = C triad
C-E-G-B = C 7th
C-E-G-B-D = C 9th
C-E-G-B-D-F = C 11th
C-E-G-B-D-F-A = C 13th
C-E-G-B-D-F-A-C *ahhh, here we get back to C, so the chords only go up to 13

Same with D:

D-F-A = D triad
D-F-A-C = D 7th
D-F-A-C-E = D 9th
D-F-A-C-E-G = D 11th
D-F-A-C-E-G-B = D 13th

Now, after you get a basic understanding of how to build chords, next you need to know the formulas for each type of chord (major, minor, dim., etc.)  After you know that, then knowing what kind of chord you have will be simple.

Thx T, but how do I know that something is minor such as a m7th?

I know how to minor a major, flat the 3rd(right?)

It looks like you answered your own question.  Any kind of minor chord will have 1st have the flat 3rd.

So to minor a 7th would I flat it? like for the key of C the m7th would be Bb?

Yes sir.

So C-E-G-Bb would be a dom7, right?

Yes sir.

Diminished chords
Going by your rules, I have that a Cdim (is that the right notation?) is..   C-Eb-Gb
Ok then to make that a fully diminished chord, I would add an A, right? so... C-Eb-Gb-A

Yes for the 1st question.  Yes and no for the second question.  Although you're adding an A, make sure that you know it's a Bbb because the formula for a dim7 chord calls for a bb7.

Major 7th and on
Ok
Cmaj7 - C-E-G-B
Cmaj9 - C-D-E-G? It doesn't have the regular 7th but is it still right?
Cmaj11 - C-E-F-G?  That can't be right

Maybe I should've explained that better.  The Cmaj7 chord is correct.  Now, in order to go higher (Cmaj 9, Cmaj 11, etc.) you have to keep that 7th there and build on it.  Since the chord is major to begin with, it should be understood that you have to have the 3rd there as well. So:

Cmaj 9 = C-E-G-B-D *notice the 7th is there

Cmaj11 = C-E-G-B-D-F or C-E-G-B-F *notice the 7th is still there, but you don't have to play the 9th

Cmaj13 = C-E-G-B-D-F-A or C-E-G-B-A *notice the 7th is still there, but you don't have to play the 9th or 11th

Could you explain the augmented, dominant th's, min9 and upand maj9 and up in greater detail please.
"Bear" with me, i ask a lot of q's.

I'll explain about the minor 1st.  Just like with the maj 7th and on, in order to go past min 7th, you have to keep the m7th there and build on it.  Since the chord is minor to begin with, it should be understood that you have to have the flat 3rd there as well. So:

Cmin9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D *notice the m7th

Cmin11 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D-F or C-Eb-G-Bb-F *notice the m7th is still there, but u don't have to play the 9th

Cmin13 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D-F-A or C-Eb-G-Bb-A *notice the m7th is still there, but u don't have to play the 9th or 11th


O.K., with augmented chords you will either see a + sign by the chord, or more likely you will see it represented as a #5 which means raised 5th.  I mean, that is what an augmented chord is, a major chord with a raised 5.

This makes way for chords that have other weird notations like b9, #9, b11, etc.  These type of notations tell you that the specific scale degree has been added and altered.  So, a chord like:

C7 b9 = C-E-G-Bb-Db  *C dominant 7th chord, with a flat 9th added

Notice that it starts with the C7 part of the chord, then the flat 9th is added to it.  I hope that I've answered all your questions successfully.  If you need any more help, just keep asking.

[Fenix]

My goodness T-Block you got time! 

[T-Block]

My goodness T-Block you got time! 

This week is spring break, so yeah I got some time.  Plus, when I get to talking about theory, I kinda lose track of time and what I think will take 10 mins turns into 3 hours, LOL.

[NJDBalla]

  Since the chord is major to begin with, it should be understood that you have to have the 3rd there as well. So:

Cmaj 9 = C-E-G-B-D *notice the 7th is there

Cmaj11 = C-E-G-B-D-F or C-E-G-B-F *notice the 7th is still there, but you don't have to play the 9th

Cmaj13 = C-E-G-B-D-F-A or C-E-G-B-A *notice the 7th is still there, but you don't have to play the 9th or 11th

  Since the chord is minor to begin with, it should be understood that you have to have the flat 3rd there as well. So:

Cmin9 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D *notice the m7th

Cmin11 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D-F or C-Eb-G-Bb-F *notice the m7th is still there, but u don't have to play the 9th

Cmin13 = C-Eb-G-Bb-D-F-A or C-Eb-G-Bb-A *notice the m7th is still there, but u don't have to play the 9th or 11th

Oh ok so you are saying as long as you have the maj7 or min7, when you go to a maj11/min11 or higher you don't have to have the 9th and so on.

That answered a lot of Q's that I might have asked .

[T-Block]

Oh ok so you are saying as long as you have the maj7 or min7, when you go to a maj11/min11 or higher you don't have to have the 9th and so on.

That answered a lot of Q's that I might have asked .

Yup, that's the idea.

[NJDBalla]

Alright, I have one more question
I recently came across a "notation" that I'd never seen before:
6/9

I got to admit I chuckled to myself when I saw it, but I just wanted to know the "make-up" or structure of a "6/9" chord.

                 Thx in advance,
                                NJD

[NJDBalla]

Srry, make that 2 more questions.

What is the structure of an "alt" chord?

[Fenix]

A 6/9 chord is simply a mahor 9th chord with an added 6th. For instance, C 6/9 would be C E G D A. This is an absolutely sweet ending chord. In stead of just playing your regular old major chord at the end of a song, play the 6/9 chord.

[T-Block]

Alright, I have one more question
I recently came across a "notation" that I'd never seen before:
6/9

I got to admit I chuckled to myself when I saw it, but I just wanted to know the "make-up" or structure of a "6/9" chord.

                 Thx in advance,
                                NJD

It's basically what Fenix said, a major 9th chord with the 6th thrown in.  It looks like this:

1-3-5-6-7-9 (C-E-G-A-B-D) *basically every scale degree but 4

Srry, make that 2 more questions.

What is the structure of an "alt" chord?

An alt chord, or altered chord is where you change an existing chord to make another chord. The structure will be the original chord plus its alteration.

So, let's say you got a regular C7 chord.  If you decide to raise the 5th, then you are altering the chord.  It would then be a C7 #5. So, anytime you see a chord with #5, or b11, or anything like that it's an altered chord.

[NJDBalla]

Thanks T-Block, Fenix, TJ, SJon, and berbie for all your help.

                            NJD

[NJDBalla]

I got some more questions to ask guys.

If you have a half diminished chord, wouldn't you have the same structure of a diminished7 but instead of double flatting the 7, you would flat it once. Am I correct?

And, what would be the structure of a "suspended" chord?

[T-Block]

I got some more questions to ask guys.

If you have a half diminished chord, wouldn't you have the same structure of a diminished7 but instead of double flatting the 7, you would flat it once. Am I correct?

And, what would be the structure of a "suspended" chord?

Yes, that's correct for the half-diminished chord.  The scale degrees are 1-3-b5-b7.  You will see it written in chord symbols as a m7b5 chord.

As for the suspended chord, the general idea is to pick a note other than the root or 7th and play the next note above or below it instead. Usually the note that ends up getting moved is the 3rd.  Now, when u name the chord, name the scale degree that you are using in the suspension.  Example:

Csus4 = C-F-G

In this chord, I took the 3rd scale degree E and moved it up to the next note, F.  Since F is the 4th in C, I named the chord sus4 to show the 4th scale degree being used in the suspension.  Another example:

Csus2 = C-D-G

Same principle as above, except this time I moved the 3rd down to the note before it, D. Since D is the 2nd in C, I named the chord sus2 to show the 2nd scale degree being used in the suspension.  One more example:

C7sus4 = C-F-G-Bb

This chord is the same as the Csus4 chord, except here I added the 7th.  The rest u already know.


When people use suspended chords, there is usually a place later (usually right after) on where it will be resolved, meaning the suspended note will go back to its original note.

[NJDBalla]

Ok. Say for instance I have an Absus13. Could that be:
Ab/Gb-Bb-C-F ?

I was asking because I was hearing in a lot of songs that the piano player uses this to get to the 4:

Key Ab
Ebm9
Ab/Gb-Bb-C-F Absus13?
DbM7

[T-Block]

Ok. Say for instance I have an Absus13. Could that be:
Ab/Gb-Bb-C-F ?

I was asking because I was hearing in a lot of songs that the piano player uses this to get to the 4:

Key Ab
Ebm9
Ab/Gb-Bb-C-F Absus13?
DbM7

That chord isn't really a suspended chord, it's a regular Ab13th chord.  You have 1-3-b7-9-13 there, nothing suspended.
Besides, you can't suspend the 13th in a 13th chord, LOL.