options of the minor 11th

[jjjoe]

there are options you can do for the Minor 11th

one is you can do the theory that i show you that is take the 5th degree of the flated 3rd of the minor chord which the flated third is a major and play the 5th degree as a major chord

For Example

the C minor chord is

CEbG

now how to make a minor chord is flat the 3rd of a major chord

For Example

CEG (when you move the 3rd down a half step it is a minor chord CEbG)

now the flated 3rd of the C minor chord is Eb which is a major so really the 5th degree of Eb is Bb so you play a Bb with the C minor chord.

For Example

CEbG/BbDF which is a Cminor11th

another option is you can break it up.

While you are holding your sustain pedel play CC

then play EbG/BbDF and you can invert the Bb major chord to create different inversions of the minor chord and release the sustain pedel

you can also invert the Bb major chord as an option.

I hope you understand what I am saying because I not too good at explaining stuff about this. Hope this help.

[Fenix]

Hmm, good stuff. Here are my rules for forming different minor chords (courtesy of Danati), using C as an example:

Cm= C major with a  b3

Cm7= C bass with a major chord built off of the b3. So C/ Eb G Bb (Eb major)

Cm9= C bass over Eb maj 7= C/ Eb G Bb D

Cm11= C bass over a major chord built off of the b7= C/ Bb major=
C G/ Bb D F.

It may seem confusing but when you get the hang of this, any minro extension in ANY key is possible for you.

[musallio]

great stuff!!
thanks

[minofmusic]

great posts

just remember the formula in your head and apply to every key


what is your formula for the 13th chords

[cas10a]

great posts

just remember the formula in your head and apply to every key


what is your formula for the 13th chords

An easy way to know the 13th of a chord is to recognize that the 13th and th 6th is the same.

ex., Root chord Cm13 - C-Eb-G-Bb-D-F-(A)

The (A) is the 6th of C and is also the 13th...IMHO It's easier to see it as the 6th of the scale than counting to the 13th

[csedwards2]

Hmm, good stuff. Here are my rules for forming different minor chords (courtesy of Danati), using C as an example:

Cm= C major with a  b3

Cm7= C bass with a major chord built off of the b3. So C/ Eb G Bb (Eb major)

Cm9= C bass over Eb maj 7= C/ Eb G Bb D

Cm11= C bass over a major chord built off of the b7= C/ Bb major=
C G/ Bb D F.

It may seem confusing but when you get the hang of this, any minro extension in ANY key is possible for you.

Fenix, we voice our 11s the same. I would just call this a C11 chord though. The "m" symbol denotes minor, which relates only to the the 3rd degree. This chord has none, so it cant be called minor. Now in practical situations, it would only be used in minor or dominant situations, because it cant work with a major third. So I can understand why you call this a minor 11. Lets say it did include a major third, the sound would suck because of the 11th and the 3rd being either next to each other or a minor 9th away (which is usu. to be avoided) is a nono (there are exceptions) but not with the 3rd and 4th/11th degree.

The only way to have an 11th in a chord that includes a major third is to augment the 11th.

ie a C9#11

C E F# Bb

For an audio example of that exact voicing of the C11, listen to Street Life by the Crusaders or Red Clay by Freddie Hubbard

Oh yeah, I dont know if you noticed it when you did it Fenix, but another way to figure out your 11th chords on the spot is to play a minor7th chord off the 5th degree of the chord.

I tend to think of it a lil different though. I play a major chord a whole step below and turn it into a minor7th, by adding the corresponding note with my thumb. In this case a G.


C - 5th degree is G
therefore G Bb D F is a Gminor7
So you have C/Gminor7 (you might even see people call it this way, sometimes not knowing that it does indeed have a name)
or C/G Bb D F

[csedwards2]

great posts

just remember the formula in your head and apply to every key


what is your formula for the 13th chords

I just pley em, meaning I dont really have a formula I think about ewhen I do, I just play the 6th (one half step down from the b7) in my chord.

I do frequently use this voicing though

C(G)/Bb D E A

1/b7 9 3 13



I think I get that from my 2-5 move

ie G/Bb D F A going to C/Bb D E A

The 7th becomes the 3rd

or the 5th note goes down a half step

[Fenix]

great posts

just remember the formula in your head and apply to every key


what is your formula for the 13th chords

13th chords are so easy, just play a Major 7th off of the b7 chord.

For example, C 13th

LH/ RH

C/ Bb D F A

Formula-wise its- 1/ b7 2 (or 9th) 4 (or 11th) 6 (or 13th).

Fenix, we voice our 11s the same. I would just call this a C11 chord though. The "m" symbol denotes minor, which relates only to the the 3rd degree. This chord has none, so it cant be called minor. Now in practical situations, it would only be used in minor or dominant situations, because it cant work with a major third. So I can understand why you call this a minor 11. Lets say it did include a major third, the sound would suck because of the 11th and the 3rd being either next to each other or a minor 9th away (which is usu. to be avoided) is a nono (there are exceptions) but not with the 3rd and 4th/11th degree.

The only way to have an 11th in a chord that includes a major third is to augment the 11th.

ie a C9#11

C E F# Bb

For an audio example of that exact voicing of the C11, listen to Street Life by the Crusaders or Red Clay by Freddie Hubbard

I understand what you are saying. I usually don't play the b3 but i use it in a minor context. I really should start adding the b3 so its a true m11 chord. thanks.

[csedwards2]

man you can have both; its two different chords, that pretty much share the same function.

I dont use the b3 much either. The only voicing I remember seeing of this  Cm11 chord is in Anita Bakers "Been So Long" on the breakdown after the chorus. That one btw had an Ab in it. It was a minor7 chord built on the iv.

C/F Ab C Eb
C#/F# A C# E

[Fenix]

man you can have both; its two different chords, that pretty much share the same function.

I dont use the b3 much either. The only voicing I remember seeing of this  Cm11 chord is in Anita Bakers "Been So Long" on the breakdown after the chorus. That one btw had an Ab in it. It was a minor7 chord built on the iv.

C/F Ab C Eb
C#/F# A C# E

Hmm, i can almost see how it is a Cm11, but the Ab throws me off. I guess you could call it a Cm11 #5.