Are Tranposers Musicians?

[jjjoe]

yes they are real musicians but the question should be are they a complete musician. I agree with both sides of views, but lets try to disect what is a real musician and what is a complete musician. A real musician is like someone says a person who actually plays and not doing the sequencing and layering. Now a complete musician is a musician who knows how to play in all key, know how to play sheet music, chord vocabulary is large, can disect theory, and other stuff. Now a person who use the transpose button is not trying to deceive the other people, they are trying to help run the service. Like the bible says if your Ox is in the ditch will you get it out or will you let it stays there. We need to not try to critize the people who use the button instead try to encourage them to not use it. It like saying is on-line students are real students. they are real students but they have limitations such as they have alot of responsibilites same with the musician they want to learn to play in all keys but they have alot of other responsibilities in their life, or having a hard time in their life so don't critize them. Here is a question is a person who play by a fake book is a real musician?

[T-Block]

To choose option #1 is not only affecting YOU, but the people as well, and perhaps inadvertently, you would have opted to shortchange the service due to personal ego.

Yeah, I already tackled that issue.  I said most people will indeed hit the button to keep the service going forth. I understand where everyone is coming from, just difference of opinion.  Just so u know, I will not publicly embarrass someone who transposes, I just keep it to myself and KIM.

I always find it funny how people say "T-block, can I get hel p with this, T-block you are a beast, T-block, I want to be like you", but then when he tell us how get there, we don't listen and cover it up with "I'm doing the Lord's work".

U can say dat again man.

[T-Block]

Here is a question is a person who play by a fake book is a real musician?

Ummm...I would say yeah.  Even though it's a "fake" book, it has real music in it to be played.

[jjjoe]

But if u put a real sheet music in front of them they can not play it.

[Ladyn]

Well, my first response is NO! But I gotta hand it to you if you can use that button and play in C and hear Ab. I can NOT do that! 

As I think about this issue, I am reminded of my years of playing the trumpet.  I could NOT fake it at all if I did not know something.  I played in jazz band, and if I had not known my scales I would not have been able to play in that band.  There was no transpose button or attachment for my trumpet, but I worked hard and practiced for hours to learn to play.  My band director did not allow us to get by without knowing our scales, technique, how to read music, and how to function as part of the jazz band.  The drummer couldn't fake it, nor could any other instrument!

So, how fair is it that as a keyboardist because of technology one can essentially fake through a service, but no other instrument can?  Is the keyboardist at least trying to learn all keys, or is this just good enough for them? If it is the latter, then it is a sad, sad state that person is in.  I personally would not fake because sooner or later you will be exposed for all to see, and that is more distracting than choosing not to  play because you don't know the song or the key.  JMHO

[kodacolor]

Yeah.  I think transposers can be considered musicians.  Personally, I think transpose should be used in until a pianist learns how to modulate as opposed to just being content with using transpose.  Relying on transpose like that can really limit a person when they sit at a piano/keyboard that doesn't have transpose. 

[seemunny]

A-men but this is basically how our "folks" roll.  We set our standards so low.  We feel we can't obtain the real thing so we fake it.

I always find it funny how people say "T-block, can I get hel p with this, T-block you are a beast, T-block, I want to be like you", but then when he tell us how get there, we don't listen and cover it up with "I'm doing the Lord's work".

Ummmm...i don't think you get that message, from my paticular posts. lol I was very "pacific".

he "should" be able to play in ALL keys...

...learn how to play in all 12 keys (if you so desire, of which you should).

"is someone who plays in less than 12 keys, thus have to use the transposer a "real" musician??? I say yes, but with a transposer's touch. But that ain't no "pimp cane", that's a crutch.

Musicians, for you own sakes, "learn to play in all 12 keys!", and for those who refuse, you just won't experience the blessing that playing in all 12 keys will bring you.

Transpose Buttons are a "crutch"...but you still can't take away the "musicianhood" of the players who use them. They didn't just wake up one morning, and magically know how to play in all 8 of those keys - they had to practice too! lol

We ALL have some limitations (unless we know it all!). Some bigger than others.

So, the most you can say about a "transposer" is:

"Yeah, they're real musicians, but with one of the more unacceptable limitations compared to a 12 key player, Which They SHOULD Correct Immediately!"

[chevonee]

A-men but this is basically how our "folks" roll.  We set our standards so low.  We feel we can't obtain the real thing so we fake it.  Musicians transposing,  people walking around with fancy cars, jewelery, house... but being broke, etc.

Twenty years ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion sense churches had  "pianos" that people had to learn on.

I always find it funny how people say "T-block, can I get hel p with this, T-block you are a beast, T-block, I want to be like you", but then when he tell us how get there, we don't listen and cover it up with "I'm doing the Lord's work".

Tell us how you really feel Sir...LOL!!! Its tight but its right.

[4hisglory]

Ummmm...i don't think you get that message, from my paticular posts. lol I was very "pacific".

Transpose Buttons are a "crutch"...but you still can't take away the "musicianhood" of the players who use them. They didn't just wake up one morning, and magically know how to play in all 8 of those keys - they had to practice too! lol

We ALL have some limitations (unless we know it all!). Some bigger than others.

So, the most you can say about a "transposer" is:

"Yeah, they're real musicians, but with one of the more unacceptable limitations compared to a 12 key player, Which They SHOULD Correct Immediately!"

Should Marion Jones been stripped of her Gold medals she received in the Olympics  for admitting to use steroids?

[seemunny]

Should Marion Jones been stripped of her Gold medals she received in the Olympics  for admitting to use steroids?

"Yes", but why?...Because it's against the rules to use steroids in the Olympics when competing against other athletes.

Stevie Wonder using a transposer in church, because he can only play in 11 keys, but the song was in that 12th key is not against any church rules, and nor is Stevie competing against anyone in worship service.

So to say "Stevie Wonder is not a real musician just because of this scenario" (hypothetical example)......Mike Tyson tells me that's "ludicrist!" lol

Stevie is still as bad (meaning good), as we all know, he just has a "limitation" in one key, so he used the transpose button that Sunday and blessed somebody. But Berry Gordy DID tease him afterwards about learning to play in that 12th key! lol

[under13]

Stevie Wonder using a transposer in church.................
(hypothetical example)

It better be hypothetical


But thats a great example. Would stevie not be a real musician IF he couldnt play in one key?

[seemunny]

It better be hypothetical


But thats a great example. Would stevie not be a real musician IF he couldnt play in one key?

Trust me, it's hypothetical like a MUG! 

ty brotha!

[Fenix]

Good Morning folks.

I saw a post up there about using fakebooks and i want to say for the record, that using fakebooks i perfectly legal. Fake books have the melody but not the full music on them. They have the suggested chords on top of the melody notes.

[jjjoe]

I was reading the post that says about the fakebook, and I disagree because they are about the same level as yall says about the transposer because if you put a real sheet music in front of them and they rely only playing by the fakebook then they can't play the real piece. If you say it is ok to play a fakebook then it must be ok to use the transpose key. I not disagreeing to other people about learn to play in all keys, but they are real musicians as the people who play by the fakebook.

[under13]

I was reading the post that says about the fakebook, and I disagree because they are about the same level as yall says about the transposer because if you put a real sheet music in front of them and they rely only playing by the fakebook then they can't play the real piece. If you say it is ok to play a fakebook then it must be ok to use the transpose key. I not disagreeing to other people about learn to play in all keys, but they are real musicians as the people who play by the fakebook.

I agree. If transposing is wrong then so is asking for the chords for a hymn. If you are a real musician Buy a hymn book, Learn the notes, either learn to read music, or transcribe them into chords yourself.
I'm not knocking everybody who ask for chords, but those who ask for chord to simple hymns that are in the hymn book without atempting to learn the notes on a music staff. Choir and P+W songs, are a OK.

[T-Block]

But if u put a real sheet music in front of them they can not play it.

O.K., sheet music reading and playing by ear are 2 totally different things that shouldn't be compared to each other at all.  Now, like I said before music in a "fake" book is just as real as it is in a real music book.  The only difference is the "fake" book has easier versions for those who can't read the full version as well.

There are tons of real musicians who can play in all 12 keys but never learned to read music.  The issue here is transposing, not reading music.  Reading music is a whole other topic that has nothing to do with anything here.

[jjjoe]

I disagree because u should be able to it all

[T-Block]

I disagree because u should be able to it all

You should, only if u know about it.  There are many musicians who don't even know about sheet music or music theory, but they can kill it in all keys.  U still missing da point of this particular topic man.  I'll take a word u used ealier, a COMPLETE musician should be able to do it all.

[jjjoe]

Also sheet music does go together with by ear because the same patterns in sheet music u can by ear on radio etc

[4hisglory]

O.K., sheet music reading and playing by ear are 2 totally different things that shouldn't be compared to each other at all.  Now, like I said before music in a "fake" book is just as real as it is in a real music book.  The only difference is the "fake" book has easier versions for those who can't read the full version as well.

There are tons of real musicians who can play in all 12 keys but never learned to read music.  The issue here is transposing, not reading music.  Reading music is a whole other topic that has nothing to do with anything here.

Yeah, this is exactly what I was thinking.  These skills are mutually exclusive.

Playing by ear
Playing by sheet music
Playing by fake books

All different things, just like

Playing Jazz
Playing Gospel
Play Blues
Playing Classical

Just because you can do one, does mean you can do it all.

When you can do it all, thats when you become a Master Musician.