Are Tranposers Musicians?

[Fenix]

Good.

So we are all in agreement that transposers are evil mud-guzzlers?

[sjonathan02]

A simple example is a song that modulates up a whole step & then modulates down a half step..or modulates by 4 whole steps..when will you get the time to hit the transpose button 4 times & still sound good

What song does that?

[Fenix]

What song does that?

A song he made up.

[themidiroom]

I think I said this before, but, the location of the notes are very important to me. I wouldnt want to reach for an Ab and hear a C.

Musicians that have a good sense of pitch or perfect pitch tend to have that issue.  I had to transpose one playing for a wedding.  The groom asked me the night before.  I knew the song but I had no idea the singer could not sing it in the proper key.  It felt really weird (kinda sounded weird too) but I got through it.

[under13]

Musicians that have a good sense of pitch or perfect pitch tend to have that issue.  I had to transpose one playing for a wedding.  The groom asked me the night before.  I knew the song but I had no idea the singer could not sing it in the proper key.  It felt really weird (kinda sounded weird too) but I got through it.

I've played on keyboards that sombody else left transposed, and I imedietly knew something was wrong.
I think I have perfect pitch only when I'm at the keyboard.(if that makes sense)

[Fenix]

I've played on keyboards that sombody else left transposed, and I imedietly knew something was wrong.
I think I have perfect pitch only when I'm at the keyboard.(if that makes sense)

None whatsoever.

[themidiroom]

I think I have perfect pitch only when I'm at the keyboard.(if that makes sense)

Maybe you have relative pitch.
I hate when people leave keyboards transposed.

[musallio]

Good.

So we are all in agreement that transposers are evil mud-guzzlers?

That's just you & Fenix my man

Maybe you have relative pitch.
I hate when people leave keyboards transposed.

It sounds weird when the board is left transposed..& Fenix, you do have some relative pitch..I have very little of it

What song does that?

There is a guy by the nickname of Dazza..ok, he didn't go up with those giant moves, but he did actually go up & then down...
I have 1 of his Amazing Grace midis where he does that..If you are not really attentive, you will not catch it, But I caught it because I was trying to learn the song his way..& at 1 point the Van Basco piano is on all black notes, white notes the next, then all black notes..

[Fenix]

I admit that i have developed relative pitch to some extent. I can also hear chord qualities pretty good. For instance, i KNOW a maj 7 from a maj 9 and so on. I can recognize a 13th chord anywhere.

[T-Block]

Finally, transposing is not "deception", but rather "limitations". He's not transposing to "pull one over on the people", but rather because that's the only current skill option he has.

Now, this is where I disagree wit u.  In essence, I believe a person who uses transpose is trying to "pull one over on the people".  If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Now, that's the "real" thing to do, IMO.  Of course, in order to keep the service going, most will indeed hit that button.  Just realize that when that happens, u have crossed over into the "faker" category for that one instance.

It's like saying if a person goes to the store and buys a cake (or any kind of food), then serves it to some people claiming that they baked (cooked) it.  Now, if no one notices the difference and assumes they made the cake (or food item), does that make them a real cook?  I liken this to a transposer, they are non-verbally saying that they can in fact play in the key at hand, when they really just hit a button.  Ya feel me?

[sjonathan02]

Now, this is where I disagree wit u.  In essence, I believe a person who uses transpose is trying to "pull one over on the people".  If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Now, that's the "real" thing to do, IMO.  Of course, in order to keep the service going, most will indeed hit that button.  Just realize that when that happens, u have crossed over into the "faker" category for that one instance.

It's like saying if a person goes to the store and buys a cake (or any kind of food), then serves it to some people claiming that they baked (cooked) it.  Now, if no one notices the difference and assumes they made the cake (or food item), does that make them a real cook?  I liken this to a transposer, they are non-verbally saying that they can in fact play in the key at hand, when they really just hit a button.  Ya feel me?

I understand what you're trying to say. I simply disagree.

[jonesl78]

If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Man, you betta hit that button, then go home and practice. This remind of the Dave chappel skit, " keep it real."

[themidiroom]

Now, this is where I disagree wit u.  In essence, I believe a person who uses transpose is trying to "pull one over on the people".  If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Now, that's the "real" thing to do, IMO.  Of course, in order to keep the service going, most will indeed hit that button.  Just realize that when that happens, u have crossed over into the "faker" category for that one instance.

It's like saying if a person goes to the store and buys a cake (or any kind of food), then serves it to some people claiming that they baked (cooked) it.  Now, if no one notices the difference and assumes they made the cake (or food item), does that make them a real cook?  I liken this to a transposer, they are non-verbally saying that they can in fact play in the key at hand, when they really just hit a button.  Ya feel me?

And again I say,  it's really not that serious IMO.

[under13]

Man, you betta hit that button, then go home and practice. This remind of the Dave chappel skit, " keep it real."

But sometimes keepin it real goes wrong.

And again I say,  it's really not that serious IMO.

Exactly what I was gonna say.

[sjonathan02]

And again I say,  it's really not that serious IMO.

Exactly.   

[T-Block]

I understand what you're trying to say. I simply disagree.

That's fine.

And again I say,  it's really not that serious IMO.

That's fine as well.  It's very serious to me though.  I take everything about music more seriously than your average musician, so of course my views are gonna clash wit a lot of yall.

[themidiroom]

That's fine.

That's fine as well.  It's very serious to me though.  I take everything about music more seriously than your average musician, so of course my views are gonna clash wit a lot of yall.

No clash here.  You'll never hear me say it's cool to transpose.  I just don't have the energy to bash those that do it.  I'm much more interested in developing my own skills. 

[seemunny]

Now, this is where I disagree wit u.  In essence, I believe a person who uses transpose is trying to "pull one over on the people".  If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Now, that's the "real" thing to do, IMO.  Of course, in order to keep the service going, most will indeed hit that button.  Just realize that when that happens, u have crossed over into the "faker" category for that one instance.

Again, if a musician can't play in a certain key, and then uses the transpose button, i don't believe his intention is to "pull one over on the people" but rather more directly: "i can't play in this key yall!!".

He can't play in that key, and THAT'S his reason! Perhaps he "should" be able to play in ALL keys, but he just can't (at least at that time).

However, if he finds himself with the option of:

1) Don't play, because "being real wit it" tells me not to...so they'll just have to sing a cappella...

versus:

2) Press the tranpose button and play "until i can learn how to play in all keys"...


To choose option #1 is not only affecting YOU, but the people as well, and perhaps inadvertently, you would have opted to shortchange the service due to personal ego.

Option #2 seems to be the more "Solomonic" thing to do. Because it "successfully takes care of" both problems, meaning:

• You don't shortchange the service, (where the people didn't even care about your lil "gadget buttons" anyway).
• And, you also in due time, eventually learn how to play in all 12 keys (if you so desire, of which you should).

[seemunny]

Precisely..

Rador, you made a point that some people might play in all the 12 keys but "not make much sense..."..
Let me start off...If it's about comparison, I'd say go deeper than just saying this one makes "sense"..btw, I think you wanted to say they don't play a piece as well / as advanced as the person playing in the fewer keys?

So in any way (MHO), I'd rather go with that some1 who has shown a great desire to learn & develop in all the keys than the guy who's played around the different eras..

Yes, when you have an important functional you want the "4 keys" guy to play for you because it will sound better, but given that the "12 keys" guy is humble & has a good attitude generally, I can bet my all that that person can go very far in their playing & after a decade, they will sound way more polished than the "4keys" guy...etc etc.

My point is, the more "keys" / scales you learn, the more the relations of the notes in the board become a clear to you & you are empowered to play "that & more" since...blahblahblah..

A simple example is a song that modulates up a whole step & then modulates down a half step..or modulates by 4 whole steps..when will you get the time to hit the transpose button 4 times & still sound good

Exactly.

Ithink I said this before, but, the location of the notes are very important to me. I wouldnt want to reach for an Ab and hear a C.
And when you are backing up a preacher who modulates a lot, they dont always go in half steps. Sometimes they might go down 3 or 4 keys. It will take a transposer a few seconds to transpose and find the new key. A good musician will be able to hear the change in an instant, and wont break the flow.

All valid points! However, the original question was not "if it's better to be very good in only a few keys vs good or pretty good in all 12 keys". But rather: "is someone who plays in less than 12 keys, thus have to use the transposer a "real" musician. I say yes, but with a transposer's touch. But that ain't no "pimp cane", that's a crutch.

Musicians, for you own sakes, "learn to play in all 12 keys!", and for those who refuse, you just won't experience the blessing that playing in all 12 keys will bring you.

[4hisglory]

Now, this is where I disagree wit u.  In essence, I believe a person who uses transpose is trying to "pull one over on the people".  If you can't play in a certain key that someone is singing in, the "real" thing to do would be to not play.  Even if the song has to be sung acapella, the musician is still being real because he/she can't play in that key.

Now, that's the "real" thing to do, IMO.  Of course, in order to keep the service going, most will indeed hit that button.  Just realize that when that happens, u have crossed over into the "faker" category for that one instance.

It's like saying if a person goes to the store and buys a cake (or any kind of food), then serves it to some people claiming that they baked (cooked) it.  Now, if no one notices the difference and assumes they made the cake (or food item), does that make them a real cook?  I liken this to a transposer, they are non-verbally saying that they can in fact play in the key at hand, when they really just hit a button.  Ya feel me?

A-men but this is basically how our "folks" roll.  We set our standards so low.  We feel we can't obtain the real thing so we fake it.  Musicians transposing,  people walking around with fancy cars, jewelery, house... but being broke, etc.

Twenty years ago, we wouldn't even be having this discussion sense churches had  "pianos" that people had to learn on.

I always find it funny how people say "T-block, can I get hel p with this, T-block you are a beast, T-block, I want to be like you", but then when he tell us how get there, we don't listen and cover it up with "I'm doing the Lord's work".