Are Tranposers Musicians?

[Skizo Frene]

My church had a concert on Saturday.

A visiting group came to sing, and they had their own musician.

I move from the keyboard to the Organ (my favorite instrument), but when their musician got to the keyboard he asked me to come over.  I walk over to him and he asks, in barely over a whisper, "where's the transpose"?

There was one other time when I found the transpose feature on the church keyboard, and that was to show this same guy how to find it in the past.   

My question is, what happens if the group sang a song that required him to modulate? 

Would he have to reach over and try to change the transpose mid-song? 

What happens if he goofs why trying to modulate it up/down and has to stop playing for a second?

What would've happened if they came and found out that all we had was a piano?

What if I didn't know where the transpose feature was?

Would he be able to play?  Would he have to get off the keyboard and walk over to the choir director to tell her he can't play because he can't find the transpose?

For God's sake, practice in every key.   

[dseaberry]

Personally, I have played for 27 years and I have never transposed. This is partly due to the fact that I started out on piano and, as we all know, there is no transpose button on an acoustic piano. To each their own but I do feel that the transpose button is a crutch. Anything you can do in one key you can learn to do in ANY key. O course, like any other musician, I have favorite keys but I play in all of them. It only takes one occassion of going to church with a Hammond or piano and not being able to transpose to truly cure someone. It is embarrassing. My thing is this. Do what you can in the present but focus on learning your craft. Push yourself past your comfortablities and maximize your potential on your chosen instrument. If you need to transpose now, then transpose. But practice in the other keys and develop your proficiency. In music, as in life, you only excel when you push yourself past your comfort zone. Be blessed and keep playing.

[churchyreal]

I just had to bring this up being this is one of the most controversial issues in music industry.

I felt so bad this past Sunday for this musician who came in. We had male chorus anniversary and the musician (couldn't tell if it was a he or she  ) was wanting the piano transposed. I honestly didn't know how because it's kind of complicated to transpose it. The musician even asked if the organ had transpose on it. The musician said that he/she plays all their songs in Ab. I was like "I wonder how T-Block would respond to that." 

[T-Block]

I was like "I wonder how T-Block would respond to that." 

You already know.

If you know how the tranpose button works, then it's cool to just tell the visiting musician how to do it. But, make sure when they done, reset it.
_______________________________________ ___________________

True story:

I was at this church last Friday cuz my mom had to preach. The church we were visiting had a double stack keyboard. I'm not really used to playing them, but I welcomed the challenge. Anyway, I go to play on one of the keyboards and it was cool. However, once I started playing on the other keyboard, I noticed that the 2 weren't sounding right together. How about, the house musician had one keyboard in one key and the other keyboard in a totally different key.

I was like W.I.T.W.? Oh, I called him up quick and told asked him to just reset both of them. I mean how disrespectful can you get by not telling me that the 2 keyboards were in 2 totally different keys. I was mad, but I kept it moving. Some people need to just get on the grind and stop being lazy.

[Blessingss]

Hey fellas pls dont kick me out here. Well I started playing when I didnt know the name of a single key on the keyboard, a scale was just a completely different world and all such 'other things'.

Now I have almost all the basics and I happen to love theory behind everything that I do. Well I don't play descently in every key at the moment but the thing is: I dont see the reason why people can keep on wanting to play 1 or 2 or 4 keys when they have all the tools and time to practice-and people in this community to help them.

I'm also really confused why people want to play in those few keys beacase I believe if you have just the basic music theory, take what ever you play in 1 key to all the 12 keys. The number system, the scale degree chords (even the scales themselves) e.t.c, can allow even beginners like us to do this. Learning a new fingering must be interesting on its own, so let's go for what ever it takes to play in every key.

It's plain & clear that playing in every key breaks the limitation of chording since (somebody will agree with me) when ever you 'mess up' with something new in music, you will always come up with great ideas to help you improve in that first key and you take it to the other keys, so the cycle keeps going on and on.

Ladies and gentlemen let me speak my foolishness once: "Music was created to be done in 12 keys, so anything done otherwise will always lead to imperfection"

I told you I dont play in every key yet, I played in that Ab for a long time, I didnt know how to do anything else anyways But now that I know I've to do things the right way. I know you are all not Swazis but I think this country slogan can help all of  us in this case "There's no hurry in Swaziland"

[sonicfoxbody]

You already know.

If you know how the tranpose button works, then it's cool to just tell the visiting musician how to do it. But, make sure when they done, reset it.
_______________________________________ ___________________

True story:

I was at this church last Friday cuz my mom had to preach. The church we were visiting had a double stack keyboard. I'm not really used to playing them, but I welcomed the challenge. Anyway, I go to play on one of the keyboards and it was cool. However, once I started playing on the other keyboard, I noticed that the 2 weren't sounding right together. How about, the house musician had one keyboard in one key and the other keyboard in a totally different key.

I was like W.I.T.W.? Oh, I called him up quick and told asked him to just reset both of them. I mean how disrespectful can you get by not telling me that the 2 keyboards were in 2 totally different keys. I was mad, but I kept it moving. Some people need to just get on the grind and stop being lazy.

something similar happened to me a few weeks ago. We were on program at another church and it was some sort of spiritual soul bowl. 4 different churches involved, each had to sing 1 song and their pastor preach a 15 minute sermon. Well, I had my youth there, I went to play a song in F as soon as I started playing it my bass player looked at me like uhhhh no, I knew it sounded off as well. I let it ride for just that song, while the pastor was preaching I couldn't find the transpose button for the life of me, its an older clavinova with some of the buttons/letters rubbed off. The guy who played it before me seriously kept ignoring me...... Inconsiderate musicians, gotta love 'em.

[T-Block]

Ladies and gentlemen let me speak my foolishness once: "Music was created to be done in 12 keys, so anything done otherwise will always lead to imperfection"

15 keys (12 playbable + 3 enharmonics), lol. I agree wit you man 100%!!!

[Blessingss]

15 keys (12 playbable + 3 enharmonics), lol. I agree wit you man 100%!!!

Hey T u've got to teach me something here, I wonder why I've always missed that in theory-I knew that when ever I stumble you wouldn't let me fall.

God bless you.

[T-Block]

Hey T u've got to teach me something here, I wonder why I've always missed that in theory-I knew that when ever I stumble you wouldn't let me fall.

God bless you.

The word enharmonic means the same keys on keyboard, but spelled different on paper. For example, the note Bb can also be named A#. Both of those notes are the same note on the keyboard, but one is spelled with a flat and the other one is spelled with sharp. Same for some of the keys. Here are all the keys:

C

C#/Db  *enharmonic

D

Eb

E

F

F#/Gb  *enharmonic

G

Ab

A

Bb

B/Cb *enharmonic


If you add up each individual key, you get a total of 15. I've played music that has been written in each of those 15 keys. A lot of people are more comfortable with either flats or sharps, so when it comes to those enharmonic keys, they choose which one they want to write in. Other times, you look at the chords of the whole piece to pick the best key to write in.

[Blessingss]

Got ya, I'm adding this to my library. Thank you so much T, this one of the most valuable information you always bless us with.

[kochukochu]

I think, it?s a helpful topic. I like this topic. I want know some helpful things from this side. It fresh my mind and experience. So lots of thanks for sharing this information with me.

[Blessingss]

Recently I watched Kirk Whalum's Gospel According To Jazz Chapter III and I discovered that the are some things you wont ever do at anytime if you dont play in every key, And since that day I started to do everything in every key.

The bounderies that we always had; getting bored, feeling that we' not progressing even if we' ve got so much material from around here has always been caused by the limits of thinking in one or few keys, so if you're just starting out, never make the favourite key mistake but develop the 'every key habit'

God bless you everyone.

[B3Wannabe]

The word enharmonic means the same keys on keyboard, but spelled different on paper. For example, the note Bb can also be named A#. Both of those notes are the same note on the keyboard, but one is spelled with a flat and the other one is spelled with sharp. Same for some of the keys. Here are all the keys:

C

C#/Db  *enharmonic

D

Eb

E

F

F#/Gb  *enharmonic

G

Ab

A

Bb

B/Cb *enharmonic


If you add up each individual key, you get a total of 15. I've played music that has been written in each of those 15 keys. A lot of people are more comfortable with either flats or sharps, so when it comes to those enharmonic keys, they choose which one they want to write in. Other times, you look at the chords of the whole piece to pick the best key to write in.

There were instruments with 24 notes. C# and Db didn't sound the same. It wasn't until the 1800's, if I remember correctly, that they settled on 12 notes.

I see where you are going, but I think thats different. Driving is not an art or a craft to most people. Now if you said "race car driver" then yes, if they cant drive a stick, they arent a real driver.

I dont think most people have problems with casual players who transpose, but when you are a pro, you are supposed to know your craft, and playing in every key is one of the most basic parts of playing. the bible said for musicians to play skillfully, not just play any old way.

I agree with the other guy. A keyboard is not a piano, like a Hammond is not a pipe organ. They're different instruments. You can be a musician and only learn on a keyboard, if you ask me. It's just, like any other craftsman, you need to bring your own tools, if you're asked to perform.

It's like saying that one isn't a photographer, because they edit their photos in photoshop, and can't get the same results from a camera. There are some things that a pitchbender, modulation wheel, and transpose allow a keyboardist to do that are impossible on a normal piano.

[under13]

I agree with the other guy. A keyboard is not a piano, like a Hammond is not a pipe organ. They're different instruments. You can be a musician and only learn on a keyboard, if you ask me. It's just, like any other craftsman, you need to bring your own tools, if you're asked to perform.

It's like saying that one isn't a photographer, because they edit their photos in photoshop, and can't get the same results from a camera. There are some things that a pitchbender, modulation wheel, and transpose allow a keyboardist to do that are impossible on a normal piano.

As for being a keyboardist, I see your point but I disagree. We should want to be the best we can be. If I'm at a Department Store and I run into Fred Hammond and tell him I'm a keyboardist and he wants to hear me as he's looking for someone to tour with  and  he asks me to play the piano there to see what I got, and  he sings something easy in the key of B, and I cant follow him, I'm not getting the gig, All because I couldnt rely on a bunch of electronic tricks to play basic chords in a certain key. My point is as a pro, you should be able to play a real piano.  I also think that we should all be able to make our way around Hammonds as well as Pipe organs....not saying we all need to master each one, but you never know when you may be somewhere and be called to play. When that happens to me I dont wanna be looking at the pipe organ scratching my head like a doofus.

Like I said I'm talking about pros who get paid, not someone who just casually plays.

As for people bringing their own tools, I've seen musicians (usually old people) bring their $99 casios to a church, and honestly they look kinda silly when there is a top of the line Motif sitting there.

As for your photographer analogy, I dont think it really that really applies.  He/she still needs to know aperture, shutter speed, ISO and their effects among other things. If they dont know those basic things, they may as well be considered the transposers of photography. lol

[T-Block]

As for people bringing their own tools, I've seen musicians (usually old people) bring their $99 casios to a church, and honestly they look kinda silly when there is a top of the line Motif sitting there.

That means NOTHING. So what u got a top of the line keyboard, if I can't use it then to me it's garbage. If they feel more comfortable on they $99 keyboard, then that's just them. It's all in how u use a keyboard that truly makes the difference. BTJM!

[under13]

That means NOTHING. So what u got a top of the line keyboard, if I can't use it then to me it's garbage. If they feel more comfortable on they $99 keyboard, then that's just them. It's all in how u use a keyboard that truly makes the difference. BTJM!

My point is, as a pro you should be able to play just about anything that's put in front of you (within reason). That means you should educate yourself on how to get to the basic piano sounds on the motif, fantom triton etc... but you dont have to agree...

[T-Block]

My point is, as a pro you should be able to play just about anything that's put in front of you (within reason). That means you should educate yourself on how to get to the basic piano sounds on the motif, fantom triton etc... but you dont have to agree...

That's cool, i kinda agree with that, in terms of a pro. I can play on anything (except an organ right now) cuz as soon as I get to a board, I'm looking for sounds, lol.

[B3Wannabe]

I suck when I play acoustic piano sounds on a keyboard without weighted keys. I ALSO suck when I play a keyboard without a sustain pedal. I absolutely need my sustain pedal! LOL

I think the reason we downplay someone that is solely a keyboardist, is because of our own need to feel better than them. BTJM. I know I encourage people to not transpose. I even give a couple friends heartache over using it, but when it really boils down to it, it doesn't really matter....to me.

If you shoot in raw, you don't need to know any of that, as long as you can get something captured.

[under13]

If you shoot in raw, you don't need to know any of that, as long as you can get something captured.

Not quite. You cant change your aperture in photoshop. If you take a group photo at f1.4 and only the first row of people are in focus, theres not much you can do in Post processing. Same with shutter speed. Yeah, you can use Auto mode, but the camera often chooses settings that dont work for what you need to do.

I suck when I play acoustic piano sounds on a keyboard without weighted keys. I ALSO suck when I play a keyboard without a sustain pedal. I absolutely need my sustain pedal! LOL

I think the reason we downplay someone that is solely a keyboardist, is because of our own need to feel better than them. BTJM.
[/quote]

I dont see it like that....I dont even see what we're talking about as downplaying someone...Well I guess that depends on the person's motives...

[B3Wannabe]

Not quite. You cant change your aperture in photoshop. If you take a group photo at f1.4 and only the first row of people are in focus, theres not much you can do in Post processing. Same with shutter speed. Yeah, you can use Auto mode, but the camera often chooses settings that dont work for what you need to do.

Indeed that is true.

The analogy was small anyway. LOL

I dont see it like that....I dont even see what we're talking about as downplaying someone...Well I guess that depends on the person's motives...

The title of this thread says, "Are transposers musicians?" I think that's downplaying.

I say they are, and that it is even possible to be a "professional musician", if you're a transposer, as all you have to do is make music your career. Expert, no. Master, no. Professional, possible.