Clever Way To Put A Transposer On Any Organ!!

[Wolfram]

Being a musician without learning your theory is like eating a peanutbutter and jelly sandwich without using bread and utensils.  You get all the filling that you want but it is messy and no one can stand to talk to you until you clean yourself up afterwards.

 

[themidiroom]

You get all the filling that you want but it is messy and no one can stand to talk to you until you clean yourself up afterwards.

 

Funny.   
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.   

[under13]

Funny.  
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.  

Makes perfect sense. Yeah theory is important, but having a feel for music is a lot more. I'm sure you have seen preachers who read their text verbatim, as well as those who just make notes, and "Go with the flow"
Yeah they may preach the same message, but the latter will engage the listener and will be more effective. Musicians need to have the same effect. Some of that comes from theory, but theory doesnt ell ou when to do it. You gotta be spontaneous.

[Wolfram]

Funny.   
I still have a "Music first, theory second" approach.  I played for years with only a very basic understanding of theory.  I think I was pretty good.  Theory connects the dots for me now.  I still play and rely on the feel and the musical emotion but theory helps me when the feel isn't there or if I have to play something I don't really know.  If any of this doesn't make sense, please disregard.   

I am not talking about the difference about the 'art' of music and the 'science' of music here.  Playing music by feel is great.  It is passionate.  It serves a purpose.  Eventually you will have to or will want to share that with others.  You can sit down and right it down by the physical note name...  You can talk about the progression that you used.  You can what progressions inspire different emotions in people.  This, my friends, is theory.  It is not a slamming your head against the wall study of some academic diatribe that you get in college.  It is a study of what make people and music tick...

In the 50's... the progression of note were:  I-vi-IV-V7 or I-vi-ii7-V7 with various turnarounds
In Blues... I-IV-V is the standard

You have Rhythm changes that work around the AABA form
You have Latin pieces that have signature chords like Girl from Ipanema

Gospel music copies itself with a basis of basic chordal harmonies...

Why is theory a part of playing with feeling?  It helps us free our hearts.  When we know the diatonic circle of tonality (ie.. what chords take you to and from tonic) we open ourselves up to complete freedom.  When we are free to express ourselves with complex chordal harmonies (9,11,13th, suspensions, alterations, etc...) we open up the entire palette of available music colors AND we can reproduce it at will because we know exactly what we just did because we can, analyze it and write it down...

I play from my heart first.  I am also VERY grateful that I took the time to beat theory into my mind so I can expand my musical vocabulary beyond what it was in the beginning.

[themidiroom]

I play from my heart first.  I am also VERY grateful that I took the time to beat theory into my mind so I can expand my musical vocabulary beyond what it was in the beginning.

I agree with you on that.  However, I know a few guys that are great musicians and can play anything but don't know a lick of theory.  I don't think any less of them for it either.

[Wolfram]

Think about how awesome they would be with a little bit of knowledge.

Music is a journey we take that we either continue to grow or one day we find ourselves left behind.  Stevie Wonder and Brother Ray were both blind yet they both understood the importance of information.  In this respect the information was music.  Theory is not all scales and patterns and such.  It is learning how to take the step from being merely a participant to becoming a creative force.  Being able to wield the power of your music not by chance but because you know exactly where it is you are going and you are able to tell others where you are heading as well.... that is magic.  That is what people remember you for. 

We often take the easiest road or the path of least resistance because we are afraid of personal failure.  We do not learn to read music because it is too difficult but we make an excuse and blame it on a different reason.  This thread is all about transposition... We use that button because it is easy.  It is the path most traveled.  All excuses...  Even I make an excuse...  All we can really do is improve ourselves daily by meeting the challenges head on. 

I will help anyone here with their theory.  You have my word on that.  I ask that you make the effort to actually learn.  In return I promise to continue to banish the transposition devil from my world as quickly as possible.

We are a community of people that never meet, but we are a community nonetheless.  Helping one another should be our concern.

Peace,

wolf

[themidiroom]

Think about how awesome they would be with a little bit of knowledge.

I don't think about it because they are adults and have made their own decisions about musicianship.  I take them as they are and leave it at that.

[musallio]

Wow, amazing how this thread has turned into a theory thread with just me gone into isolation for the weekend

Midiroom, I get you well with your last comment, but I have to agree with Wolfram..
This weekend I had the priviledge to play at a conference..
Some guys would know here that I've only ever played once at church in my life, but here I was suddenly enthrsted with this huge role..
The guys told me from the start that they wanted me to play the traditional style (which I've only ever practiced in once @ home )

But I was so amazed when I got there & I just started playing..
It was by feel, yes, but theory made me do the right stuff...If I didn't have the theory, I probably would have made tantamount mistakes & I would have been booed out, but the way I played was so impressive that now I find myself being given more responsibility than I would like

I can explain everything I was doing & I didn't have to transpose because I knew exactly what I had to do (thanks to the numbers!!!)...
& yes, there was alot of feel to it, but I was still guided by theory more than anything....

What I have also noted is that the advanced guys have all said that theory has helped them to put the dots together...

I have 2 sets of students:

The 1st once wanted to learn to play all the stuff they hear in 3 days..alright..they can play some of the songs now,but it is so difficult to explain to them stuff that will help them play instantly, because they "don't understand the language"...I have to resort to saying: "Play this chord..", "what is a chord?".."this!" , "then that..then this"....very frustrating & time consuming & you'd have to do that for most songs!!! Because they thought theory was going to waste their time..

then there are guys who fell in love with my playing & I told them I'll start them off with theory..
I taught them about forming scales & the importance of those...
I told them how songs are built off scales..
The dude was incredibly fascinated (so was I )...
I then illustrated a simple song, Joy To The World...
I told him we needed to add some meet in our melody, so I had to explain how the chords are formed for the c major scale.

Need I say that since his ear was so good, when the group was praying, he was playing whilst I was away!!!
More importantly, he had an understanding of what he was doing..

My point:
Theory needn't be boring, it can be applied there & then This guy was telling me how he would have gone for music classes a long time ago if he'd known that THEORY was soooo exciting..
He's a drummer btw

[themidiroom]

Wow, amazing how this thread has turned into a theory thread with just me gone into isolation for the weekend

Midiroom, I get you well with your last comment, but I have to agree with Wolfram..

I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.

[musallio]

I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.

 

Sorry, my bad, poor grammar on my part
I understood that you agreed with WR..
I shouldn't have added that "but"..
effectively, I was agreeing with both of you & like what you both have to say..
Hoepfully many people will grow the wiser from your contributions.

[seemunny]

Musallio, are you stirring up stuff again! 

[Wolfram]

Well...

We can go back to the Dark Ages and blame the monks for ruining the originality of purely non theory music.

In the middle of the 12th century, the Gregorian Monks began charting out the mass in a series of lines and squared dots based on a scalur mode system that eventual became known as the Modes we use now in all of our modern music.  (Dorian, Phrygian, Lydian, Mixolydian, Aolian, Locrian, Major). 

In the 16th century, the Grand Staff was developed so that a greater scope of notation could be had.

So, I guess if you mean that music prior to the Dark Ages was without theory and done simply by rote...  I would agree with you.  A master musician would take a worthy apprentice and then train him to be a journeyman and then a master himself.  Unfortuneley the saying is that a student can only learn to be 75% as good as the teacher this way unless he is a prodigy...  That would mean that if this would have continued...  The telephone game of music would have cost us more than gained us.

Theory does not have to be heavy.  It can be incorporated into your regular playing.  Just consider it a painters palette of colors.  Do you want one choice or hundreds?

[themidiroom]

We can go back to the Dark Ages and blame the monks for ruining the originality of purely non theory music.
Theory does not have to be heavy.  It can be incorporated into your regular playing.  Just consider it a painters palette of colors.  Do you want one choice or hundreds?

I digress.  Dang monks!   

[T-Block]

I agree with Wolfram as well.  I have no problems with theory at all.  I simply stated that there was music before there was theory and I like to keep that in mind.

U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.

[musallio]

U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.

True..
Theory is always there..it's just a matter of it being written down & communicated to other people.

illustration:

When I started playing, I had no theoretical understanding at all..after playing a few times, I saw some reccurring patterns, but I could not explain them in musician's language..
That does not mean that the stuff I was playing could not be explained theoretically--purely means I was in the dark, but some1 with an understanding of theory could have come to me & told me you have just played this , that & that using this scale, in the proper music language.

[seemunny]

lol Man, yall really splittin' hairs now!

If before the written theory existed, there was still theory in the "minds" of people, then wouldn't those people simply be like any other player who plays by ear?

When you say "plays by ear", all that means is, "you didn't READ it", but you still may have had a "system" that you discovered. By trial and error, you discovered how things worked. THEREFORE, i guess one could call that guy a musician who was using "theory", it just WASN'T written down - it was in his head.

So "theoretically", an "ear player", is still using theory! lol
Now, what do we do? lol

[under13]

So "theoretically", an "ear player", is still using theory! lol

NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.

[Wolfram]

NO

When people use theory, they THINK about the rules and principles of music theory, then apply it to their fingers.

When people play by ear, they usually dont have to think as hard, They just play it almost naturaly.

Thats Just how I see it.

That is EXACTLY the difference...  You can combine the two, but the fundamentals of theory are cognitive thought.  A person versed in theory can think ahead of the game MUCH faster.  There is a logical sequence to what is coming up. 

I played sax by ear (not in my ear, BY ear).  I was REALLY good.  I never took a lesson and toured all over the country playing for thousands of people.  I then went to college and got theory...  My sax playing took off through the roof because someone handed me a paint store of musical colors to play with.  I had this HUGE warehouse of things I could pull from now that I did not even know existed because playing be ear, I had to hear it first, playing with a theory foundation meant I could just create it.

W

[themidiroom]

U sure bout dat?  Even though there wasn't a thoery system like we have it today, there was theory man.

Still digressing.

[musallio]

That is EXACTLY the difference...  You can combine the two, but the fundamentals of theory are cognitive thought.  A person versed in theory can think ahead of the game MUCH faster.  There is a logical sequence to what is coming up. 

I played sax by ear (not in my ear, BY ear).  I was REALLY good.  I never took a lesson and toured all over the country playing for thousands of people.  I then went to college and got theory...  My sax playing took off through the roof because someone handed me a paint store of musical colors to play with.  I had this HUGE warehouse of things I could pull from now that I did not even know existed because playing be ear, I had to hear it first, playing with a theory foundation meant I could just create it.

W

& that's a Rapp!!! (BishopCole would say!)