Need help explaining "Why" to my fellow musicians

[SisterCM]

So my million-dollar question is which method of playing is best, by hear, by sheet music or by chords?

[under13]

So my million-dollar question is which method of playing is best, by hear, by sheet music or by chords?

http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,43556.0.html

[T-Block]

So my million-dollar question is which method of playing is best, by hear, by sheet music or by chords?

And the answer is:  Neither is best, it's up to the individual what method works best for him/her. 

I'll take my million dollars in cash, check, or money order, LOL!!!

[SisterCM]

And the answer is:  Neither is best, it's up to the individual what method works best for him/her. 

I'll take my million dollars in cash, check, or money order, LOL!!!

Thank you!

Now, this is no joke, if I were able I would give you a million dollars without a problem, why because you are such a blessing to our Lords Kingdom work.  You share all of the knowledge that the Lord has blessed you with so freely.  You just don’t know how much you inspire me.  Keep doing what you are doing and you will be rewarded with more millions than you could ever imagine.

[B3Wannabe]

I don't know if there is anyone our there like me, but I find it extremely difficult to play w/out theory.  If I don't understand something, I can't play it effectively.  I can spit it back like a computer, but w/out that understanding it won't mean diddly squat to me.

I'm with you.

[Ladyn]

I don't know if there is anyone our there like me, but I find it extremely difficult to play w/out theory.  If I don't understand something, I can't play it effectively.  I can spit it back like a computer, but w/out that understanding it won't mean diddly squat to me.

I am this way too.  I think some musicians are fine NOT understanding, and thus my dilemma.

[SoundofJoy]

I'll use sheet music as a guide to where the notes/lyrics should be. When playing a hymn, every lyric has a note, in gospel the lyrics stay the same but the notes sometimes changes depending on the singer. I've learned both methods and when I'm playing I don't use a number system. Lets take the song "Praise Him" in the key of Eb. When I approach a song I use my system of melody, chord and progression techniques so that I can build around the song. If you've watched my videos you will see that technique in action.

Example #1
lyric line - praise him /chord,progresson or run  /  praise him / chord, pattern run, arppegio run or chord/ praise him

Now before I even start to play I envision the lyric first, the note second and what I want to hear around the note last. This is done throughtout the entire song as I'm playing. Yes, if you're thinking thats impoosible you are correct. For me it's automatic, I concieve it, my mind transmits the thoughts to my fingers and then I play it. I often think 3 - 5 chords ahead of the song so when I get there I know which phrase/chord/run/pattern I'm going to use.

What you have found is that no two musicians think alike at the same time. When I play with my brother I have to scale back on my technique and cue in to what he's doing. Most musicians want to be the "lead" player. I've learned how to be a good follower first and lead when neccessary. I don't know how you're practice sessions go but I might suggest you find out what are favorite keys, favorite songs and favorite musician they would like to emulate. It may help in making the musicians more comfortable when you're making suggestions as it relates to playing in ministry. I know I can watch Richard Smallwood play all night, learning his technique of classical and jazz around gospel songs. Find some youtube videos they might enjoy watching and learning from (screen them first though).

Oh, my example above you might want to see what goes on in my head. OK

lyric - ..praise him/chord pattern, decend,climb split fingers...../praise him
note - ..Eb.....Eb............................ ...................................G... ...G
chord - F G Bb Eb...Gb Ab B, D/ G B G , E/ G C G, F/ G D G.......Bb D Eb G   
bass - ..G..............Ab........G........... .A..........B...................C

This is a qucik snapshot of how I visualize how I want to play around lyric/melody. I said earlier I have 3-5 patterns pre selected before I get to the song and I choose which one at the time I play it. Yes like a computer I have stored up all the songs I've played and the patterns in those songs so that I can use them in other songs. Thats why I don't use the number system, I would have to change my appoach to playing.

This is why I stress learn your scales, chords with inversions and progressions in every key. When you have a full bank music to pull from you'll never be "broke for a chord".

[Virtuenow]

This is a qucik snapshot of how I visualize how I want to play around lyric/melody. I said earlier I have 3-5 patterns pre selected before I get to the song and I choose which one at the time I play it. Yes like a computer I have stored up all the songs I've played and the patterns in those songs so that I can use them in other songs. Thats why I don't use the number system, I would have to change my appoach to playing.

This is why I stress learn your scales, chords with inversions and progressions in every key. When you have a full bank music to pull from you'll never be "broke for a chord".

It sounds like you are using a modified version of the numbering system.  At least you are using some ideas that can easily be applied by the numbering system.  It also sounds like your patterns are based on the way you want the music to sound-- as in staccato, leggato, appregio, loud, soft--- not the notes or chords themselves.  That is a pretty creative pattern.  I may try to get my 3 to 5 patterns down-- only mine will probably be based on the numbering system; as well as a try at your pattern variations.  I think this is a good idea!  Thanks.

[musallio]

Nice thread

4 me, the RH seems to direct me where my LH will go, but I'm still learning to play chords independently with both hands..

Just like Soundofjoy has a bank, I also have a limited bank of RH chords for each melody note that I associate with specific bass notes..& the more songs I learn, the more I associate more bass notes with a specific chord. I think this is a slightly different approach to the way most people do it, ie, of finding the bass note 1st & then adding chords to it..

I find identifying the melody 1st, then dressing it up with chords & adding bass to it easier.
I start with the bass notes & melody note in songs that have a strong/ distinctive bass.

[jonesl78]

I don't know if there is anyone our there like me, but I find it extremely difficult to play w/out theory.  If I don't understand something, I can't play it effectively.  I can spit it back like a computer, but w/out that understanding it won't mean diddly squat to me.

I agree and this brings up another question. What exactly goes through the mind of someone that does not know "some" theory? I guess it can be compared to someone giving you directions without knowing the names of the streets.

[T-Block]

I agree and this brings up another question. What exactly goes through the mind of someone that does not know "some" theory? I guess it can be compared to someone giving you directions without knowing the names of the streets.

I believe what goes through their minds is patterns.  Even though they don't know the theory, they can recognize the patterns that they have practiced.  It's like hitting a bunch of buttons at the right time, u may not know what the buttons do, but you do know when to push them.

They theory helps you to know what the names of the chords/runs are and why you are playing particular chords/runs at particular times.

[organman88]

Im sorry i have to disagree with a lot of people on here theory is always needed the basic not the harder stuff but anyways theory just gives you understanding of whats going on and it skips years of trail and error. Many people think they have a good ear but gospel music has a lot of the same runs and chord changes so listening to it for a while you will start to memorize them. I know a lot of musicians that can listen to a gospel track and know whats going on but listen to a r and b track and have no clue. Im telling you guys on LGM if you don't learn your scales most importantly the major scale your ear wont be as good as you think and everything wont make sense. I learned to play by ear by learning the different intervals and how they sound in relation to the tonic or key of the song now im able to hear any run in any style of music and im able to play it without thinking and I realized i had perfect pitch from it too lol so theory doesn't make you a sick musician (experimenting) but theory helps you advance faster and helps you understand how people use certain phat chords or substitute the chords in the progresion im getting off topic lol im bout to preach about theory im going to start a post on theory 4 real! 

[musallio]

I agree and this brings up another question. What exactly goes through the mind of someone that does not know "some" theory? I guess it can be compared to someone giving you directions without knowing the names of the streets.

Nice Analogy.

I believe what goes through their minds is patterns.  Even though they don't know the theory, they can recognize the patterns that they have practiced.  It's like hitting a bunch of buttons at the right time, u may not know what the buttons do, but you do know when to push them.

They theory helps you to know what the names of the chords/runs are and why you are playing particular chords/runs at particular times.

I have to co-sign this..This week I had this beast showing me a song or two & all he was saying is "you play this chord, & then this & then you wait for the beat & then play this.."..
Whenever I was responding & trying to tell him now what he was doing, he wouldn't want to hear of it (which is a pity becuase if he knew his basic theory he could go very far..the passing chords he was showing me included stuff such as subing a ii with a v-Idom-IV when coming from a iii..blahblah..
The beauty of that is I can easily identify songs with similar patterns & immediately apply it, surpassing many hours of trial & error (like Organman88 has stated).

Organman88, I'm waiting for that thread on theory

[T-Block]

all he was saying is "you play this chord, & then this & then you wait for the beat & then play this.."..

Man, I hate when musicians talk like that.  It actually makes me angry, but I try to stay calm cuz I know they don't know any better.

[jonesl78]

Man, I hate when musicians talk like that.  It actually makes me angry, but I try to stay calm cuz I know they don't know any better.

You know, when you think about it, theory can be intimidating. I was talking to a guy that works at a bank and he uses the words; speculate, hedge, forward contracts, invest, portfolio, derivatives,  diversification,  debts, equities, securities, strike price, etc. Then when I come here we use terms like;  scales, major 7th,subdominate,  flat fifth, dominate 7th, 7-3-6 progression, #5 #9, etc.    Theory is important but like you implied you gotta be patient.

By the way, much respect to you for sharing your knowledge in regards to theory.

[musallio]

True theory is very intimidating most of the time--but very empowering wen you actually understand it

I know even finance terms are very intimidating even for finance majors , but I think it all depends on one's desire to be well-equipped or not..If I come across something that I find intimidating (theory-wise in this case), if I'm aware of it's benefits, I invest some time & brainpower into it & those few hours of learning will help me for the rest of my life..

But if you always evade the fundamentals you'll fall short in some areas where you should be on top of the game & have no 1 but yourself to blame..

So in that banking scenario you gave, the simple way out is to ask the banker what a portfolio is instead of telling him not to bother, because it might very well be what you need to know to about to make better investing decisions (just like knowing the relationship of notes in music helps 1 to play the right "grace notes" at the right time).

[under13]

Those are great anologies, except you Have to know financial terms to work as a financial dude. You dont need to know theory to be a succesful musician.

And I like the one about the street names. That proves that you may know how to get somwhere, but it would be very difficult to tell someone how to get there

[jonesl78]

Those are great anologies, except you Have to know financial terms to work as a financial dude. You dont need to know theory to be a succesful musician.

And I like the one about the street names. That proves that you may know how to get somwhere, but it would be very difficult to tell someone how to get there

mmm... interesting point.

[T-Block]

You dont need to know theory to be a succesful musician.

Hmmm....I totally disagree wit ya there man.  Not knowing theory may make u a successful keys player, or organ player, or whatever, but that does not make u a musician.  Musicians, successful or not, at least know the basics of theory.

[under13]

Hmmm....I totally disagree wit ya there man.  Not knowing theory may make u a successful keys player, or organ player, or whatever, but that does not make u a musician.  Musicians, successful or not, at least know the basics of theory.

I knew you would disagree with that. So we are just gonna have to agree to disagree. Do you agree?

I think being anointed and touching someones heart with your music is a lot more important than knowing theory.