explain keeping the groove or pocket

[samuel1985]

when every time i watch a clip or video and some people i can tell if they are keeping a groove or the pocket, but what be confusing is when there is clip that somebody is nearly all over the set doing small fills and consider keeping the groove or pocket. Can someone please explain this to me

[fretai03]

One is groove, another is pocket, the last one is not. Clear as mud?

My work here is done.

[Hotsticks1]

Dude, the way I see it, everyone has their own distorted version of what groove and pockett is, and what's too much or too little, so I'd say you might as well not even waste your time looking for 1 answer...

[JFunky]

when every time i watch a clip or video and some people i can tell if they are keeping a groove or the pocket, but what be confusing is when there is clip that somebody is nearly all over the set doing small fills and consider keeping the groove or pocket. Can someone please explain this to me

...maybe this will help: 

http://youtube.com/watch?v=KOssmcxTbZI

  from the 0 - 35 he's establishing the groove.  From the :35 on to the 2:06 he's grooving playing pocket and playing the song.  2:06 - 2:23 he adds lil' fills and accents to the groove. (Still Pocket)  2:24 Chorus...song builds up and he's again playing the song and accenting lil' things in the song.  (Still Grooving/still playing pocket)

...3:35 the groove changes a bit to a Reggea style pattern.  (Still Pocket)  He does compliment fills to what the other musicians are doing and is still playing the song.

...4:29 he stretches a bit and is still complimenting the Sax Player and "is still in the Pocket". 

...6:09, he stretches a bit to do a hihat triplet thing he likes to do while still grooving and "he's still in the Pocket".


....to finalize, the whole song was never played out of the "Pocket" and he "grooved" hard.

[SabianKnight]

Groove and Pocket are simply the comfortable points in the Timing of any rhythmic pattern of music. It is where Time and Feel are in alignment. Fills or Time Signature changes should not disturb the natural flow of the given piece of music.
Listen to and study Vinnie and Omar Hakim playing with Sting. They do a lot of tunes in 7 and 5 or go from a 4 to a 5 or 7. You have to understand and embrace and respect the mechanics/techniques/mathematics of playing Time (Notational Values) in order to have a deep groove or pocket. It is all about munipulation and disguising the Time. you cannot do that to invoke a feeling of 'groove" if you don't understand it onesself. For everything there is a season (even fills) and an order. As soon as you disrespect that, all bets are off.

[JFunky]

For everything there is a season (even fills) and an order. As soon as you disrespect that, all bets are off.

...exactly.  

[samuel1985]

...maybe this will help:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=KOssmcxTbZI


  from the 0 - 35 he's establishing the groove.  From the :35 on to the 2:06 he's grooving playing pocket and playing the song.  2:06 - 2:23 he adds lil' fills and accents to the groove. (Still Pocket)  2:24 Chorus...song builds up and he's again playing the song and accenting lil' things in the song.  (Still Grooving/still playing pocket)

...3:35 the groove changes a bit to a Reggea style pattern.  (Still Pocket)  He does compliment fills to what the other musicians are doing and is still playing the song.

...4:29 he stretches a bit and is still complimenting the Sax Player and "is still in the Pocket". 

...6:09, he stretches a bit to do a hihat triplet thing he likes to do while still grooving and "he's still in the Pocket".


....to finalize, the whole song was never played out of the "Pocket" and he "grooved" hard.

this clip really helps me understand how to groove and keep in pocket thanks jfunky

Groove and Pocket are simply the comfortable points in the Timing of any rhythmic pattern of music. It is where Time and Feel are in alignment. Fills or Time Signature changes should not disturb the natural flow of the given piece of music.
Listen to and study Vinnie and Omar Hakim playing with Sting. They do a lot of tunes in 7 and 5 or go from a 4 to a 5 or 7. You have to understand and embrace and respect the mechanics/techniques/mathematics of playing Time (Notational Values) in order to have a deep groove or pocket. It is all about munipulation and disguising the Time. you cannot do that to invoke a feeling of 'groove" if you don't understand it onesself. For everything there is a season (even fills) and an order. As soon as you disrespect that, all bets are off.

SabianKnight these words help how much technical skills you need to have if you want a great pocket and groove (which is what i always want when i play).
thank you so much

[JERARD SNELL]

 ???pocket = playing a steady beat/ pattern  / phrase + keeping time = always knowing where the 1 is. is the key  !!! only play rolls / fills   in and out of changes or  hits /breaks .. groove = feel = flow = how you play in the pocket...... ok...............blessings............. ..JERARDMRPOCKETSNELL

[SabianKnight]

???pocket = playing a steady beat/ pattern  / phrase + keeping time = always knowing where the 1 is. is the key  !!! only play rolls / fills   in and out of changes or  hits /breaks .. groove = feel = flow = how you play in the pocket...... ok...............blessings............. ..JERARDMRPOCKETSNELL

It's always good to have pros checking in. Nice stuff on your mySpace... Is that you on the Lenny Track?

[11111111]

As far as I'm concerned, based on the NOW common usage of words...

Pocket = The basic necessities of the music. Nothing more or less. A drum machine can do this, and you don't have to pay them.

Groove = Why you hire musicians, and the reason why drum machines won't replace drummers completely. Well, at least not in the forseeable future, lol. I think it's safe to say, if your playing doesn't 'cause someone to want uncontrollably/unknowningly move to the music - it/you ain't grooving.

So many drummers are being asked to play the bare necessities, because they can't handle the freedom. I frankly believe, in many cases, the only reason drummers are up on stage is because it goes against tradition to have a band without a drummer on stage.  For appearances only...

Bump all this crap.  Let's get back to music that moves - not only within itself, but moves people. Everything is too linear, and drummers, and other musicians, come across as really stale/sterile/stupid, lol....

[SabianKnight]

As far as I'm concerned, based on the NOW common usage of words...

Pocket = The basic necessities of the music. Nothing more or less. A drum machine can do this, and you don't have to pay them.

Groove = Why you hire musicians, and the reason why drum machines won't replace drummers completely. Well, at least not in the forseeable future, lol. I think it's safe to say, if your playing doesn't 'cause someone to want uncontrollably/unknowningly move to the music - it/you ain't grooving.

So many drummers are being asked to play the bare necessities, because they can't handle the freedom. I frankly believe, in many cases, the only reason drummers are up on stage is because it goes against tradition to have a band without a drummer on stage.  For appearances only...

Bump all this crap.  Let's get back to music that moves - not only within itself, but moves people. Everything is too linear, and drummers, and other musicians, come across as really stale/sterile/stupid, lol....

True

[JFunky]

As far as I'm concerned, based on the NOW common usage of words...

Pocket = The basic necessities of the music. Nothing more or less. A drum machine can do this, and you don't have to pay them.

Groove = Why you hire musicians, and the reason why drum machines won't replace drummers completely. Well, at least not in the forseeable future, lol. I think it's safe to say, if your playing doesn't 'cause someone to want uncontrollably/unknowningly move to the music - it/you ain't grooving.

So many drummers are being asked to play the bare necessities, because they can't handle the freedom. I frankly believe, in many cases, the only reason drummers are up on stage is because it goes against tradition to have a band without a drummer on stage.  For appearances only...

Bump all this crap.  Let's get back to music that moves - not only within itself, but moves people. Everything is too linear, and drummers, and other musicians, come across as really stale/sterile/stupid, lol....

".....and down goes Frazier!!!"