M.O.M.S. should be members ????

[4hisglory]

Do anyone else believe that the Minister of Music should be a member of the church they are playing for??

[diverse379]

Do anyone else believe that the Minister of Music should be a member of the church they are playing for??

No i dont agree that the MOM should  (must) be a member
I have been a MOM at fouir or five churches
and I have always aligned myself with the vision of the pastor.
that is the function of the music minister
It is not necessary to become a member to  minister effectively. 

why do you feel this is the case?

I wont say it hurts to become a member.
but I dont really see how it helps
membership is a name on a piece of paper at one of my former churches I was the Pastors Armor bearer in addition to being the MOM  they were just about to sponsor me to go to divinity school because of my dedication.  yet I was not a member.  when God called me away i left I was elevated and now I am out helping another ministry to grow and flourish.  I have no desire to become a member here either at this time but that doesent stop me from praying for the members for fasting for working hours and hours everyday to present the best

yet on the other hand there were members on my music team and of the church who were catty back biting vindictive
unforgiving callous cold cruel deceitful etc.

I am not going to say i was perfect but I conducted myself with decency and order and did everything i could to enhance the ministry and usher in the spirit

if the MOM embodies the true calling of the profession then why should it matter where his membership lies.

If I am wrong someone please school me

[vtguy84]

Maybe because I'm naive....however I think it shows commitment when one settles and joins the ministry that they are apart of playing for.  The minister of music is the one that's called upon.  Now if you just want to be a church musician, then it may not be necessary to be a member.

The Minister of Music however plays a vital role and stands alongside the pastor and the vision for the church.

[nessalynn77]

I think it helps a lot.  It eliminates that hireling mentality, where a person feels that if the ministry goes south, they can always just jump ship.  It's like the more you have vested in the success of the ministry, it seems like the more committed you'll be.

[B3Wannabe]

I think the MOM should be a member. If you're just going to "play" that's different, but a "Minister" should be under the pastor. That's my take on it.

Imagine what the government would be like, if we contracted out a Secretary of Defense, just because they've won a lot of wars....

[SisterT]

I think it helps a lot.  It eliminates that hireling mentality, where a person feels that if the ministry goes south, they can always just jump ship.  It's like the more you have vested in the success of the ministry, it seems like the more committed you'll be.

I agree.

[diverse379]

I guess i am the only one who is on the other side of the fence.
i respect all of you to the highest degree. but i am not convinced you havent told me anything i didnt already say.

membership is your name on a roll and you pay general dues but membership to the body of christ means you believe in the gospel you believe jesus died for your sins and through him you have redemption

It means that according to the word you support the undershepard. of any congregation
and you assist and allign yourself with his vision if you are in that house ministering.and if you cant do that because you disagree with his vision then you step rather than undermine an undershepard in his house.

are you telling me that a non member cannot do this as well as a member?

are you telling me that a member would automatically do this better then a non member

of course not nobody in their right mind would make that claim
therefore membership is just something to placate some folks politicallyh  but by no means is membership what you should be looking for in your MOM
you should be looking for reverence to the almighty and a fervent desire to serve him.

how many snakes and devils sit on deacon boards
how many pimps are in the pulpit
how many wicked folks are members of churches.

again i say if the MOM is truly for christ then he is already a member of the body of christ and that is membership enough.

[sybesq]

I guess i am the only one who is on the other side of the fence.
i respect all of you to the highest degree. but i am not convinced you havent told me anything i didnt already say.

membership is your name on a roll and you pay general dues but membership to the body of christ means you believe in the gospel you believe jesus died for your sins and through him you have redemption

It means that according to the word you support the undershepard. of any congregation
and you assist and allign yourself with his vision if you are in that house ministering.and if you cant do that because you disagree with his vision then you step rather than undermine an undershepard in his house.

are you telling me that a non member cannot do this as well as a member?

are you telling me that a member would automatically do this better then a non member

of course not nobody in their right mind would make that claim
therefore membership is just something to placate some folks politicallyh  but by no means is membership what you should be looking for in your MOM
you should be looking for reverence to the almighty and a fervent desire to serve him.

how many snakes and devils sit on deacon boards
how many pimps are in the pulpit
how many wicked folks are members of churches.

again i say if the MOM is truly for christ then he is already a member of the body of christ and that is membership enough.

diverse379 - It sounds like you have a pretty strong opinion on this issue.  It also sounds like you've made up your mind to be a real benefit to the ministries that you commit to.  Speaking from the perspective of a pastor's wife, however, I can tell you that -- more often than not -- the "jump ship when things are going south" mentality tends to be a big issue with MOM's who haven't committed to the ministry at least on some level.  There was a time when even the laity were compelled to commit to a particular ministry for years if not for a lifetime.  That isn't the case anymore.  A number of studies conducted by experts in the field of church growth/decline (e.g. Thom Rainer and George Barna) clearly demonstrate that -- at this point -- many people are "committing" to several churches at once.  In other words, if they're looking for vanilla "Word" one day, strawberry the next and chocolate the day after that, they've got a church for every mood.  It goes very much in line with the scripture that states that, in the last days, people will "heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."  In other words, "church-hopping" is becoming the norm.  It's not a healthy way to grow in one's Christian walk; but, unfortunately, far too many music ministers -- and lay church people -- have gotten caught in the grips of what is an apparent sign of the times.  God bless you. 

[nessalynn77]

diverse379 - It sounds like you have a pretty strong opinion on this issue.  It also sounds like you've made up your mind to be a real benefit to the ministries that you commit to.  Speaking from the perspective of a pastor's wife, however, I can tell you that -- more often than not -- the "jump ship when things are going south" mentality tends to be a big issue with MOM's who haven't committed to the ministry at least on some level.  There was a time when even the laity were compelled to commit to a particular ministry for years if not for a lifetime.  That isn't the case anymore.  A number of studies conducted by experts in the field of church growth/decline (e.g. Thom Rainer and George Barna) clearly demonstrate that -- at this point -- many people are "committing" to several churches at once.  In other words, if they're looking for vanilla "Word" one day, strawberry the next and chocolate the day after that, they've got a church for every mood.  It goes very much in line with the scripture that states that, in the last days, people will "heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."  In other words, "church-hopping" is becoming the norm.  It's not a healthy way to grow in one's Christian walk; but, unfortunately, far too many music ministers -- and lay church people -- have gotten caught in the grips of what is an apparent sign of the times.  God bless you. 

Well said.  It's nothing against you diverse or a challenge to your commitment, but if you are committed and that is where the Lord has called you, what is the aversion to becoming a member.  It's kind of like people who will live together for years, but will not get married.  They always say marriage is just a piece of paper, I love you anyway, etc.  But what is wrong with making it official?  I don't get it.

[diverse379]

diverse379 - It sounds like you have a pretty strong opinion on this issue.  It also sounds like you've made up your mind to be a real benefit to the ministries that you commit to.  Speaking from the perspective of a pastor's wife, however, I can tell you that -- more often than not -- the "jump ship when things are going south" mentality tends to be a big issue with MOM's who haven't committed to the ministry at least on some level.  There was a time when even the laity were compelled to commit to a particular ministry for years if not for a lifetime.  That isn't the case anymore.  A number of studies conducted by experts in the field of church growth/decline (e.g. Thom Rainer and George Barna) clearly demonstrate that -- at this point -- many people are "committing" to several churches at once.  In other words, if they're looking for vanilla "Word" one day, strawberry the next and chocolate the day after that, they've got a church for every mood.  It goes very much in line with the scripture that states that, in the last days, people will "heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears."  In other words, "church-hopping" is becoming the norm.  It's not a healthy way to grow in one's Christian walk; but, unfortunately, far too many music ministers -- and lay church people -- have gotten caught in the grips of what is an apparent sign of the times.  God bless you. 

well said i guess i done got told.

you too nessayln77

i guess i was only looking at it from my point of view which is obviously prety narrow

God bless yall for schooling a brother i will definitely pray on the subject

[stinso]

Hey Bruh Diverse,
I'm feelin where you are trying to go with the subject; and, I hear what everyone else is tryin to get across also.
But, hear this.......God has given us all the wonderful gift of "free will".....With this gift comes responsibility and accountabiliy.
The enemy is very good at what he does with his tricks and vises.  What we may see as doing the will of God; may or may not be.

What ever we aren't sure of; we need to seek God. God supplies us with various mighty gifts for protecting ourselves and others.
One of these mighty gifts is called "descernment"(hope i spelled it right). Ask God for it; and, with the help of the holy ghost you be able to combat lifes issues and questions. That why we have a direct communication line w/God....to pray and ask "him" for direction.
Put your trust in God and not man.....Man has his own definition and opinion of whats right or wrong.  Only God's opinion matters.
If you are a child of God...Who is obedient and has conformed,willing mind to live for God.
If what you say or do doesn't line up with the word of God......The bible and the conviction of God's spirit will guide in spirit and all truth.  What does your conviction tell you?

[sjonathan02]

Hey Bruh Diverse,
I'm feelin where you are trying to go with the subject; and, I hear what everyone else is tryin to get across also.
But, hear this.......God has given us all the wonderful gift of "free will".....With this gift comes responsibility and accountabiliy.
The enemy is very good at what he does with his tricks and vises.  What we may see as doing the will of God; may or may not be.

What ever we aren't sure of; we need to seek God. God supplies us with various mighty gifts for protecting ourselves and others.
One of these mighty gifts is called "descernment"(hope i spelled it right). Ask God for it; and, with the help of the holy ghost you be able to combat lifes issues and questions. That why we have a direct communication line w/God....to pray and ask "him" for direction.
Put your trust in God and not man.....Man has his own definition and opinion of whats right or wrong.  Only God's opinion matters.
If you are a child of God...Who is obedient and has conformed,willing mind to live for God.
If what you say or do doesn't line up with the word of God......The bible and the conviction of God's spirit will guide in spirit and all truth.  What does your conviction tell you?

didn't someone say this already?   

[diverse379]

Hey Bruh Diverse,
I'm feelin where you are trying to go with the subject; and, I hear what everyone else is tryin to get across also.
But, hear this.......God has given us all the wonderful gift of "free will".....With this gift comes responsibility and accountabiliy.
The enemy is very good at what he does with his tricks and vises.  What we may see as doing the will of God; may or may not be.

What ever we aren't sure of; we need to seek God. God supplies us with various mighty gifts for protecting ourselves and others.
One of these mighty gifts is called "descernment"(hope i spelled it right). Ask God for it; and, with the help of the holy ghost you be able to combat lifes issues and questions. That why we have a direct communication line w/God....to pray and ask "him" for direction.
Put your trust in God and not man.....Man has his own definition and opinion of whats right or wrong.  Only God's opinion matters.
If you are a child of God...Who is obedient and has conformed,willing mind to live for God.
If what you say or do doesn't line up with the word of God......The bible and the conviction of God's spirit will guide in spirit and all truth.  What does your conviction tell you?

l=thanks for the words stinso let me see if i can answer that

I feel that the church i become a member of is that of a pastor who is going to shepard me
i am not going to be a member so someone else can feel comfortble about my commitment. I am a soul too.
 a sheep as well as the conbgregants,  true I may be in a leadership postion but I am in need of guidance as well, from a qualified undershepard who can understand and meet my needs.  because i have chosen to work along side you does not mean you should be my pastor.  I can align myself with your vision and help you launch your ministry on a professional and spiritual level as a brother in Christ but by no means do i feel that predicates me having to have that person as my pastor unless his walk and talk and outreach ministry directly connects with me.

I have been under pastors who I did become a member and it was probably a mistake to do so at that time because i did it out of pressure and because of her teaching gift but i did not believe in her whole approach which was more law then grace. or all law and no grace. 

as a minister of music I believe i am helping people find there way through whateve way the music ministry assists people in hearing the message.  and caling the lost.

I agree that there are people who are insincere but I still fail to see how them signing a membership form prooves there sincerity. It may just show that they can play the game of politics and placation

although i admit that there are so many out there who couldnt give a hill of beans about the ministry that they serve. 

 There must be another way to ensure that you are getting the best person for the job and if they join that is gravy but before that the character and quality should be there
 member or  not

so finally I want to state that first point again befause I feel it is the most valid

the musician needs a pastor and the pastor should be one that assists him or her in his or her spiritual walk.

any old pastor wont do it must and should be a personal choice and not predicated by the fact that that is where you spend every sunday or the fact that they pay your salary

nor should the fact that you take a salary from a ministry that you are not willing to submit yourself too state anything about your character. 

I dont like nextel as much as t-mobile but I would work for nextel and help nextel be as good as t-mobile
nobody would have a problem with that nextel is better for some people.

so i may work for a pastor who may not agree with me on every point but if he is serving the same God and trying to win souls i will go out on the batleifield with him. 

[sjonathan02]

l=thanks for the words stinso let me see if i can answer that

I feel that the church i become a member of is that of a pastor who is going to shepard me
i am not going to be a member so someone else can feel comfortble about my commitment. I am a soul too.
 a sheep as well as the conbgregants,  true I may be in a leadership postion but I am in need of guidance as well, from a qualified undershepard who can understand and meet my needs.  because i have chosen to work along side you does not mean you should be my pastor.  I can align myself with your vision and help you launch your ministry on a professional and spiritual level as a brother in Christ but by no means do i feel that predicates me having to have that person as my pastor unless his walk and talk and outreach ministry directly connects with me.

I have been under pastors who I did become a member and it was probably a mistake to do so at that time because i did it out of pressure and because of her teaching gift but i did not believe in her whole approach which was more law then grace. or all law and no grace. 

as a minister of music I believe i am helping people find there way through whateve way the music ministry assists people in hearing the message.  and caling the lost.

I agree that there are people who are insincere but I still fail to see how them signing a membership form prooves there sincerity. It may just show that they can play the game of politics and placation

although i admit that there are so many out there who couldnt give a hill of beans about the ministry that they serve. 

 There must be another way to ensure that you are getting the best person for the job and if they join that is gravy but before that the character and quality should be there
 member or  not

so finally I want to state that first point again befause I feel it is the most valid

the musician needs a pastor and the pastor should be one that assists him or her in his or her spiritual walk.

any old pastor wont do it must and should be a personal choice and not predicated by the fact that that is where you spend every sunday or the fact that they pay your salary

nor should the fact that you take a salary from a ministry that you are not willing to submit yourself too state anything about your character. 

I dont like nextel as much as t-mobile but I would work for nextel and help nextel be as good as t-mobile
nobody would have a problem with that nextel is better for some people.

so i may work for a pastor who may not agree with me on every point but if he is serving the same God and trying to win souls i will go out on the batleifield with him. 

But not as a member? That doesn't make logical sense. What you're describing, to ME, sounds like a Merc. 

[diverse379]

But not as a member? That doesn't make logical sense. What you're describing, to ME, sounds like a Merc. 

you talk about logic? in the kingdom of God?  when it says in the word that God will use the foolish things to confound the wise.


but to set you straight on a point or two mr SjONathob

a meercenary has no allegience to any king
he will go to who is paying the most
sometimes they have morals but usually any war will do


I will only fight for King Jesus

and Jesus has many generals and colonals some fighting according to his battle plans and some doing their own thing  (those not following the gospel message) but still christians

I reserve my right to draw the line that the house I play in ascribes to the gospel message
but it is not a requirement of mine that the person pastoring the house be qualified to be my pastor.

you say it doesent sound logical

so I ask you are wise
and me foolish
are you confounded?
I guess to follow Your line of thinking i should only play in houses of worship where the person is qualified
to be my pastor

To be honest the last house of worship that i would have been a member of wouldnt keep me because i was not good enough they wanted someone with a higher skill level of musicianship
so i guess i should just wait until i get good enough to play for a strong ministry and let my gift just be idle in the mean time
and until i find that house dont play for anyone???????????????????

even though God told me to quit my day job and follow him i should just ignore that and get a secular job that can pay my bills ad maybe play for free somewhere.

or lower my standards and take anybody who is willing to hire me and call them my pastor ?????????????

sorry

I cant do that


See I was wlling to examine myself and see it from the other side but I doubt seriously anyone has really taken the time to see it from the other side.

You put in bold my battlefield analogy

but what about my being a sheep
that was more important then me fighting on the battlefield because i need soul salvation to
and i need to be lead and educated and taught

the choice of a pastor is personal and what i do in my music ministry is what I do for the congregation on the Behalf of my savior

and I am a workman worthy of my hire




I will serve my master as I feel he has called me to serve

and i advse you to not judge another masters servant for he stands before his master to be judged

[Grammi]

If the Elders, Deacons, and other Ministers are members..the Minister of Music should be as well.

Hired help on the other hand, is just that: hired.

[saxandkeys]

YO....DV379......we just talkin' man......but, I do agree with you.

If the Elders, Deacons, and other Ministers are members..the Minister of Music should be as well.

Hired help on the other hand, is just that: hired.

I don't consider myself hired help.  Ideally, I would be a member of the church's I play for...but I am not willing to resign my current membership in order to make the Elders, Deacons, or other ministers "feel better" about my dedication to what WE are trying to accomplish.

I will say this...I know for a fact that I put more time and effort into the ministry than many of the "MEMBERS"......so what does that say?

[Grammi]

Thanks to LGM I've discovered that I think the position in question is simply mistitled, or poorly titled.
I think church music director is far more suitable 

[diverse379]

YO....DV379......we just talkin' man......but, I do agree with you.
I don't consider myself hired help.  Ideally, I would be a member of the church's I play for...but I am not willing to resign my current membership in order to make the Elders, Deacons, or other ministers "feel better" about my dedication to what WE are trying to accomplish.

I will say this...I know for a fact that I put more time and effort into the ministry than many of the "MEMBERS"......so what does that say?

Yeah you are right LOL

my bad i got a little defensive there

well I just got off the phone with the pastor of the church I used to play for
i was his armor bearer for 2 years

he agreed with me that a minister of music need not be a member
his concern would be more about his commitment to God not his commitment to man
We put to much on our commitment to men
our only commitment need be to God and the upbuilding of his kingdom

and thank you for pulling my coat Grammi

[sjonathan02]

As I recall (or reread), you asked us for our opinion and our thoughts. So, when you get them, you want to get defensive? 


I asked a question, for the sake of clarification, nothing more. Ease back, playboy, ease back.


But, I'll ask this question. While you're being the MOM at one church, where ARE you going to get fed, Mr. Sheep; what's happening to your soul (that's too important for the church that hired you to feed you) while your leading the music ministry?


Just wondering.