Need Info on Teaching Songs Effectively At A Choir Practice

[mowill]

Hello Everybody,

I have seen posts on how to better your choir, but I wanted to know if anyone could give me ideas or suggestions on how to effectively teach songs in a choir practice or how to make the most of the time when teaching songs.

1) Is there a particular way or routine that your Directors teach the songs?
2) If the song is new, do they teach the whole entire song in the 1st practice that it's introduced or do they break the songs up and just teach the 1st half and then come back to the next practice and then teach the 2nd half of the songs?
3) Do you have section leaders that you rely on to teach the parts for Sop, Alto, and Tenors, or do your Directors give the parts to each section?
4) Also would you take a chance on singing a song only after 1 choir practice?

I want to have a dynamic choir and realize that you do have to fast and pray, but I also realize that making the most of your practice time does help. I do understand that you want to make sure the musicians have the music in advance so they don't have to use the practice with the choir to learn the music.

I just want to know how others handle their practices so I can take notes

Thanks,

[vtguy84]

This is how I run rehearsals, and it works the best out of the different ways I've tried.

As far as learing songs:

I have 1 section leader for each section.  The three are responsible for learning the songs ahead of time.  We get together two days before rehearsal and go over parts to make sure that parts are successful.  Once we have mastered this, we go to rehearsal.

At rehearsal when I introduce a song, I let the choir listen to the whole song in its entirety.  Afterwards, there are three separate rooms where the different section leaders take their section and work on their parts; each room has a CD and a boombox.  While this is going on, the musicians are in the main room fixing last minute stuff to make sure that the music flows effectively.  This way all people are working at the same time.  A normal song takes about 10-15 minutes to work on.  After that time, we come together and put it all together.

I think this answers questions 1-3.

4) Also would you take a chance on singing a song only after 1 choir practice?

A director with a good ear can definitely make a call whether the song is ready after just one rehearsal or not.


Also, depending on what your choir is, you may be able to get the songs to the choir ahead of time so they can listen and become familiar with them.  Since I direct a college gospel choir at a technological school, I am able to post the songs for the choir members to retrieve before rehearsal.  This gives them a leg up on how the song goes.

Hope this helps

[sjonathan02]

This is how I run rehearsals, and it works the best out of the different ways I've tried.

As far as learing songs:

I have 1 section leader for each section.  The three are responsible for learning the songs ahead of time.  We get together two days before rehearsal and go over parts to make sure that parts are successful.  Once we have mastered this, we go to rehearsal.

At rehearsal when I introduce a song, I let the choir listen to the whole song in its entirety.  Afterwards, there are three separate rooms where the different section leaders take their section and work on their parts; each room has a CD and a boombox.  While this is going on, the musicians are in the main room fixing last minute stuff to make sure that the music flows effectively.  This way all people are working at the same time.  A normal song takes about 10-15 minutes to work on.  After that time, we come together and put it all together.

I think this answers questions 1-3.

A director with a good ear can definitely make a call whether the song is ready after just one rehearsal or not.


Also, depending on what your choir is, you may be able to get the songs to the choir ahead of time so they can listen and become familiar with them.  Since I direct a college gospel choir at a technological school, I am able to post the songs for the choir members to retrieve before rehearsal.  This gives them a leg up on how the song goes.

Hope this helps

it must be REAL nice to be in college. 

[sjonathan02]

You know, while my last comment was meant to comical, I stumbled upon a serious question.....What kind of choir is it because that DOES make a difference.


VT has given you (what I believe to be) advice on how to work with a college choir (meaning you're working with young adults).


With older adults, you must have YOUR stuff together; PERIOD!! You must be able to sing or hear every part (be able to play it on the piano if you can).

If you're working with the musicians, give them a copy of the song and work with them (on your time) so that they can just play the song (or possibly play the parts, if you can't)


Yes, allow them to hear the structure of the song and get a feeling for it. If needed, type up the words, but quickly take them away.

Other than that, it's really a trial and error kind of a thing. It's what will work best for your situation.

Be blessed.

[mowill]

We call this choir the Mass choir where the age range is from 50's to 5 yrs old. So the age range is definitely broad. We do have other choirs in the church by age range but I was trying to focus more on practice time for the mass choir.

[michaeln]

We need help along the same line I guess.....  My wife has just been appointed childrens choir director she's nervous and I really want her feel comfrontable (is that spelled right) and be successful in blessing GOD  in this miniistry.  What kind of songs should she do and give examples of teaching methods.  I thought she should do a hymn and something up temple for the children (A & B selections).  Bless GOD first then give the children something they may enjoy (THAT'S NOT TO SAY THEY WOULDN'T ENJOY BLESSING GOD THRU SINGING HYMNS, BUT JUST A SIDE THOUGHT)....

[Mysteryman]

The most effective way I have seen with a church choir is a prepared director. Like jonathan said that knows every part. The old MOM at my church was effective. He would teach one section their part then 2 sections would sing together then 3 part harmony.

Really you could teach the soprano and baritone their part at the same time if you want. They are usually going to be the same although he used to teach baritone/bass with the tenors.

But he might teach the soprano their part until they got it, Then he would sing the alto part with the sopranos. Then altos and sopranos would sing together. By this time the tenors pretty much had their part. But then he would have all three parts sing. This was the most time efficient for our church.

He would use that method or he would start with tenors then do tenor/alto and then tenor/alto/soprano.

Me personally though when I get my time. I would train the choir in music exercises that teach them range, pitch, and harmony. Then I would use the method 1 part, 2 part, 3 part,.... harmony.

I have seen directress's waste alot of time teaching one part then teaching the next part then the next. By the time they all get harmony the sopranos are singing the alto part and the altos are singing tenor. I think its better having harmony going on with teaching parts because it teaches the choir to hear harmony. If if it doesnt work for you try something else.

With the choir learning songs I say they should have atleast two rehearsals before singing a song so that means you must be prepared. If the song is long then its cool to break it up. If its just a regular church song then I say go through the whole song. Then clean the song up in the next rehearsal.

This is the setup for choir rehearsal at my church but Im just a musician. If i was leading I would change things up.
30min prayer
Scripture
Devotional song
Business
Warm up song
Rehearsal

Usually we waste alot of time doing this. lol It takes 20 mins to decide what they are going to wear. Dont do that.

This is what I would do.
Musicians Rehearsal
Work with solo vocalists before actual rehearsal.
Special needs vocalists. lol

Rehersal
-----------
Prayer...whether kneeling or holding hands
Scripture
Vocal warm up exercises and technique
Hymns
New Songs 10-15 mins per song
Sunday morning line up

If you seriously want to learn 4 part harmony a hymn book is the easiest way to go. Our church sings 2-3 main songs every Sunday. The rest of the songs are the same. This means I would have 6 main songs every rehearsal. 3 would be from the previous week and the next 3 would be new. I would go  over the Sunday morning line up to make sure the new and old members have all songs down. Maybe even march in. Some people find this boring but excellence requires you be thorough. I personally think if you did these things every rehearsal you would have a well trained choir. I would even bring in guess directors and musicians from time to time to share with the choir.

[lfifega]

We need help along the same line I guess.....  My wife has just been appointed childrens choir director she's nervous and I really want her feel comfrontable (is that spelled right) and be successful in blessing GOD  in this miniistry.  What kind of songs should she do and give examples of teaching methods.  I thought she should do a hymn and something up temple for the children (A & B selections).  Bless GOD first then give the children something they may enjoy (THAT'S NOT TO SAY THEY WOULDN'T ENJOY BLESSING GOD THRU SINGING HYMNS, BUT JUST A SIDE THOUGHT)....

I have been in choirs since I was 5yrs old.  And I play for the children's choir now.  If the children are fairly new at this I would suggest easy songs.  What makes a song easy to learn-you ask?   The ones that don't have a lot of words, and vamps/bridges, key changes etc.  Some of the songs the kids at my church really like are God  Is by New Birth Mass Choir(Eddie Long), I will glorfy the Lord,  Incredble God, incredible praise, I need you to survive by Kirk Franklin(I think), Praise is what I do and If you're happy & you know it by Vicki Winans.  Hope that helps!  The main challenge with children is harnessing their energy. It helps if you can teach the parts quickly, so they don't get bored.  Be blessed !

[vtguy84]

I need you to survive by Kirk Franklin(I think),

That's Hezekiah Walker

But what you say is correct....you have to be overly prepared working with kids....because you will lose attention quick if you are fumbling around trying to figure out things in rehearsal.

[michaeln]

Thanks for the response my wife and the children sang on sunday and they did "The reason why I sing" by Kirk.  I thinks that because it was the first time the nervousness was high.  They also didn't practice with the keyboard/piano player and that didn't help.  Hopefuly that doesn't derail them from working in the ministry of song for the Lord.  Pray for them "The Agape Angels of Praise Children's Choir"...................

[MinJDPeters]

I agree with everything that has been said here.

Your level of preparedness as the director is vital.  I also agree with what has been said about the type of choir you're directing.  I have been directing choirs of all ages since I was about 12, so I've "been around the block" a little.  With kids, you'd BETTER have your stuff together because rehearsal can get out of control and become confusing.  You need to be 100% prepared.  I don't recommend trying to learn the song yourself or the choir parts at rehearsal.  Children know when you don't know what the world you're doing! 

On the other hand, I have walked into my adult rehearsal (the praise team) and said, "okay, I don't really know these choir parts".  Because of the maturity level and the skill level AND the number of people on my praise team as opposed to the choir, I can do that and they'll figure out the parts themselves.

But with my choirs, I do it the old fashioned way.  Part by part.  Tenors stand and get your voice for this part of the song, altos stand and get your part, etc etc.  The put them together.  That part is finished, move on to the next part.  It works so much better that way.  I also make sure that the soloist I have chosen at least knows the song before rehearsal.  I provide them with a CD.  I don't want the learning the song or hearing it for the first time when I'm trying to teach the choir.  I prefer to have my musicians already taught before choir rehearsal as well but that's a WHOLE 'nother topic!!  lol

[Mysteryman]

On the other hand, I have walked into my adult rehearsal (the praise team) and said, "okay, I don't really know these choir parts".  Because of the maturity level and the skill level AND the number of people on my praise team as opposed to the choir, I can do that and they'll figure out the parts themselves.

Yeah thats cool I would to challenge people like this too with increasing song difficulty because they can get bored singing easy stuff. One day I will get my chance.

[MinJDPeters]

Oh you'd better believe I throw some challenging ones at them.  But I do have some that I just start playing the music and say "learn your parts".

Took us YEARS to get this point, I want to make sure everyone knows that!

[MrSparrow]

Wow!

What a question...

Pacing, pacing, pacing... Fortunately, I'm a music teacher and when I did my student internship, my two lead teachers share with me the following things...

It's vitally important that you tackle the most difficult song first. People come full of energy and life and are motivated at the beginning of the rehearsal as the rehearsal wears on, their voices aren't going to be as strong and they're going to get easily discouraged, frustrated, tired etc...

End on a positive note, do a song that the choir knows and loves at the end of the rehearsal.

Another thing I can share is the 1-2-3 process.

1. You tell them what you want to hear (5 to 10 seconds)
2. You let them do it (40 seconds)
3. Congratulate them and ask them to repeat it or you say it a different way or ask for more this or less that to get the result you're looking for... (10-15 seconds)

A lot of directors spend too much time TALKING! The choir doesn't come to rehearsal to hear you TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK... they come to SING SING SING SING SING...

If you're really interested in improving your rehearsal technique give someone an assignment to keep track of how much time you spend talking vs. the choir singing. They greater the balance of time spent singing, the better the choir you wil have. If the greater balance of time is spent listening to YOU TALK, you won't have the great of a choir.

I'll put some more helpful hints in here from time to time...

Let me know how these things work out for you...

MrSparrow

[Mysteryman]

Wow!

What a question...

Pacing, pacing, pacing... Fortunately, I'm a music teacher and when I did my student internship, my two lead teachers share with me the following things...

It's vitally important that you tackle the most difficult song first. People come full of energy and life and are motivated at the beginning of the rehearsal as the rehearsal wears on, their voices aren't going to be as strong and they're going to get easily discouraged, frustrated, tired etc...

End on a positive note, do a song that the choir knows and loves at the end of the rehearsal.

Another thing I can share is the 1-2-3 process.

1. You tell them what you want to hear (5 to 10 seconds)
2. You let them do it (40 seconds)
3. Congratulate them and ask them to repeat it or you say it a different way or ask for more this or less that to get the result you're looking for... (10-15 seconds)

A lot of directors spend too much time TALKING! The choir doesn't come to rehearsal to hear you TALK TALK TALK TALK TALK... they come to SING SING SING SING SING...

If you're really interested in improving your rehearsal technique give someone an assignment to keep track of how much time you spend talking vs. the choir singing. They greater the balance of time spent singing, the better the choir you wil have. If the greater balance of time is spent listening to YOU TALK, you won't have the great of a choir.

I'll put some more helpful hints in here from time to time...

Let me know how these things work out for you...

MrSparrow

Amen brother. I told the MOM this at my church. I think she forgot I need to remind her. We are supposed to start at 7:00 Pray to 7:30. That doesnt start on time. The president gets up and talks about uniform then the MOM talks about the same thing the president says. You lose 20-30mins right there. Then we go over songs. There is alot of talking to the choir between songs and during songs. We may do 2-3 songs between 7 and 9:30. They feel if we have done 2-3 new songs and 2-3 old songs we have accomplished alot. The new songs are usually some easy verse/chorus song. That would aggrevate me so much. I had to change my mindset. It still does a little. I feel you should spend 10-15mins on a new song. Then come back to it at the end or go over it in a new rehearsal.

[sjonathan02]

Amen brother. I told the MOM this at my church. I think she forgot I need to remind her. We are supposed to start at 7:00 Pray to 7:30. That doesnt start on time. The president gets up and talks about uniform then the MOM talks about the same thing the president says. You lose 20-30mins right there. Then we go over songs. There is alot of talking to the choir between songs and during songs. We may do 2-3 songs between 7 and 9:30. They feel if we have done 2-3 new songs and 2-3 old songs we have accomplished alot. The new songs are usually some easy verse/chorus song. That would aggrevate me so much. I had to change my mindset. It still does a little. I feel you should spend 10-15mins on a new song. Then come back to it at the end or go over it in a new rehearsal.

Ya'll spend 30 minutes in prayer???? 

[Prophetic Remnant]

Ya'll spend 30 minutes in prayer???? 

Yes. That's what I like to hear. That's why it's so many choirs that think their annointed but are not because they don't spend a great deal of time in prayer. Sorry to bust some of you guys bubble but PRAYER IS BETTER THAN PRACTICE.

[Mysteryman]

Yes. That's what I like to hear. That's why it's so many choirs that think their annointed but are not because they don't spend a great deal of time in prayer. Sorry to bust some of you guys bubble but PRAYER IS BETTER THAN PRACTICE.

I agree that prayer and practice go hand in hand but if it was me I probably would do a holding hands prayer or do kneeling prayer afterwards. The way we pray sometimes that can be a disadvantage on the voice. Many pray out loud and some lose their voice.  The church has 30mins prayer before every service so the choir can still get prayer in. They do kneeling prayer before Sunday morning service too.

[sjonathan02]

I agree that prayer and practice go hand in hand but if it was me I probably would do a holding hands prayer or do kneeling prayer afterwards. The way we pray sometimes that can be a disadvantage on the voice. Many pray out loud and some lose their voice.  The church has 30mins prayer before every service so the choir can still get prayer in. They do kneeling prayer before Sunday morning service too.

Yes, that's what I mean. I understand what PR is trying say, but rehearsal is rehearsal. If you want to pray, then have a shut-in, pray before service, etc. But, 30 mins before a rehearsal?  I dunno.