in reference to susbstitutions

[aljeres]

first - i want to say this, people say they want to learn aout this stuff, but have no real unction as to what hey're asking for! when you allow ya self to embark in this direcion, you need to be ready for what is all entailed..........i'm not saying this to scare you, or to be a jerk, i say this to help you go to another level in ya playing, but mostly in ya thinking...........i can talk on this all day, but i request you open ya mind, and ya ears, and your ways of playing.......is all, i'm not crazy, i know this stuff sounds wierd, but this is what you are asking about, and i am here to help you to understand it!........people come to my sight all the time and make all types of comments.......most of the time they think it's wierd sounding............let me say this too, while here; you don't have to play it the way i do, but this information is as accurate as i know.......take this info, and rearrange this right info in a way you want, there is no crime in that........but stop thinking i am crazy or somthing.....lol i am fine, and blessed, and i love to do what i do......so here it is my people, my fellow musicians in the gospel;

Substitutions......

Substitutions are all about placement, and timeing!!!!!!!! period..never forget that!
The chord by itself is nothing more than a regular chord....used in a normal way otherwise..

The thing to understand about subs; are they are their for embellishment, surprise, and suspense...
There is nothing like the element of surprise!

Ex; a simple 2-5-1 in Bb

CBb/EbM7___FM/FM7DOMINANT____BbDAb/BbM -      REGULAR


CA#/EbM7____FM/FM(7)_____F#C/FBbD_____GAB/F#ABD -     SURPRISE......M6TH

WHEN IT COMES TO SUBS, AND ENDINGS, YOU DON’T HAVE TO END ON THE 1.


A SMALL PORTION OF A COMMON SONG; “ OH GIVE THANKS “ ( BEGINNING )

Now a lot of people don’t realize, this song is full of subs, but im just useing it right now because it’s a good song for what we are talking about. Remember, subs are about placement, and timeing.
Placement - there are 8 basic chords we work with in playing a song, amonst the 8 chords is
                      A 3 chord basic pattern, that provide us with a basic structure in order to play
                     Through a song, this is the critical part of playing a song in general! This is the
                     Part people who aspire to play miss.....STRUCTURE.

** TIP**
            If you can’t play  any song useing these 3 chords  ONLY first, then you need to back it
up! Stop kidding ya self, this affects the future of soooooooo many students of this instrument.

The 3 chords I’m sure you’ve guessed it by now are the 1-4-5 scale chords...BUT, the awesome thing about being able to play with these 3 chords is, they become what I call “basic hot spots” in
ya playing through a song.

Most songs start out on the 1, a lot of praise songs are nothing but, 1-4-2-5-1 songs, and the vamps are nothing but 1 to 4's.....sooo when we are at the place of useing sub chords in a song,
we can start at any of those hot spots, for starters..........now back to our simple and common song.

LH/RH
KEY Bb
-  A PORTION ONLY FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES

DGAbC / FA#D____/ ACF_____EbBbD / FGBbDF -      OH  GIVE  THANKS, 1 TO 4
(EXT/SUB)(7TH)(5TH)                                   ( SUB) M3rd

CA#/EbGBbD_____FAC / EbFAC _____BbDAb / DFBb - 2-5-1 UNTO THE LORD

F#AC / F#ACD - FOR ___ FABbd / FABbd____EABbd / EABbd - HE IS GOOD

F/CFA__G/DGBb__F/CFA__Bb/DFBb - HE, E, IS GOOD!
                                     
 – Now I will pick some spots to start my subbing,.....

DGAbC / FA#D___/ GA#DF / ACF -1 TO A SUB FOR 4
                                   Minor 6 for the 4

CA#/EbGBbD_____FAC / EbFAC ___BbFA / DFAC - 2-5-1
                                                              Sub on the 1 - Major 3rd

F#AC / F#ACD - FOR ___ FABbd / FABbd___CEBb / F#ADF# -6 TO THE SUB ON THE 2
                                                                           SUPER-IMPOSED SUB- 13TH
                                                                               GOOD.....

F/CFA__G/DGBb__F/CFA__BbC#F / ACE - 5 TO SUB ON THE 1 WALK UP!
                                          EXT   SUB ON 1 - MINOR 9TH
                                                      GOOD!
Now this little simple and common example has all the needed eliments to employ subbing in ya song! And we can do it again, but different spots, sometimes same spot, just different chord...all this is done when you are comfortable with basic rules to chording, and you have a decent enough understanding to progressions,and their purposes........

[sjonathan02]

This is too good not to bump. I'll have questions, but I'll ask them later.

[MikaSue]

This IS great information.  I have always wondered how do I know which chords to substitute with.  thanks man!

[sjonathan02]

Ok, the only thing I'm not following are the chord patterns in the examples. Can you help me with this, Algieres?

[aljeres]

Ok, the only thing I'm not following are the chord patterns in the examples. Can you help me with this, Algieres?

im not sure if ya refering to the 4 basic patterns or what? i stuck to the 4 basic patterns.......only thing i did different was changeing the chord, a couple of the chords didnt really have the bass in it, because you can do that!depending on the situation.....i guess it helps to give ya substitue posibilities......

M3rd = playing a minor chord of the majo 3rd.....

m3rd = playing a major chord off the m3rd....

m6th = play major chord off ya minor 6th

just a few............these  are the most common types of substitutions....

[diverse379]

            If you can’t play  any song useing these 3 chords  ONLY first, then you need to back it
up! Stop kidding ya self, this affects the future of soooooooo many students of this instrument.

The

I have heard this and i even feel it on some levels because every note in the diatonic scale are covered by one of these three chords

but to be honest there are still times when i am in service and they do a song that I cannot catch even with the 1-4-5 approach. so whats the deal

[sjonathan02]

For example:


Ex; a simple 2-5-1 in Bb

CBb/EbM7___FM/FM7DOMINANT____BbDAb/BbM -      REGULAR


CA#/EbM7____FM/FM(7)_____F#C/FBbD_____GAB/F#ABD -     SURPRISE......M6TH


I can understand this example.



BUT:


KEY Bb
-  A PORTION ONLY FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES

DGAbC / FA#D____/ ACF_____EbBbD / FGBbDF -      OH  GIVE  THANKS, 1 TO 4
(EXT/SUB)(7TH)(5TH)                                   ( SUB) M3rd


This I don't understand. I get this first chord:

DGAbC / FA#D


But, what's going on after that, I don't know how to get to the next chord. I pray that I've made myself a bit clearer. 

[aljeres]

I have heard this and i even feel it on some levels because every note in the diatonic scale are covered by one of these three chords

but to be honest there are still times when i am in service and they do a song that I cannot catch even with the 1-4-5 approach. so whats the deal

there are songs, that start at other locations, other  than the 1, and those are really the only other reasons.........but most songs i should have said to be more exact........will start on the 1 and it will go to the 4, and then the 5 or vise-versa.....point is, if a person can not play with 3 chords, then how can he or she expect to be able to play in a series of chords.......you can do pretty good, even if ya know nothing but the 1-4-5 in everykey.....now i am refering to knowing, where to go, being able to hear where to go, and know when to as well, which is just as critical.......

[diverse379]

there are songs, that start at other locations, other  than the 1, and those are really the only other reasons.........but most songs i should have said to be more exact........will start on the 1 and it will go to the 4, and then the 5 or vise-versa.....point is, if a person can not play with 3 chords, then how can he or she expect to be able to play in a series of chords.......you can do pretty good, even if ya know nothing but the 1-4-5 in everykey.....now i am refering to knowing, where to go, being able to hear where to go, and know when to as well, which is just as critical.......

I am not fully convinced like I said before i have known about this idea for years now and it does work most of the time in knowing at least the hot points as you say or the home base chords



but there are so many songs i have encountered that broke that rule so violently i forgot the rule exists i cant think of any right now

I do worship by john p kee

and the madness of some of Hez songs which seem to be in two keys at once

but over all the concept works and from what I understand everysong can be broken down to 1-4-5

I just dont see it yet

[sjonathan02]

I do worship by john p kee

Man, I wish I could find the tri-tones in THAT song. I can hear them, I just can't figure out how they go together. Back to the grindstone. 

[diverse379]

Man, I wish I could find the tri-tones in THAT song. I can hear them, I just can't figure out how they go together. Back to the grindstone. 

[aljeres]

For example:


Ex; a simple 2-5-1 in Bb

CBb/EbM7___FM/FM7DOMINANT____BbDAb/BbM -      REGULAR


CA#/EbM7____FM/FM(7)_____F#C/FBbD_____GAB/F#ABD -     SURPRISE......M6TH


I can understand this example.



BUT:


KEY Bb
-  A PORTION ONLY FOR EXAMPLE PURPOSES

DGAbC / FA#D____/ ACF_____EbBbD / FGBbDF -      OH  GIVE  THANKS, 1 TO 4
(EXT/SUB)(7TH)(5TH)                                   ( SUB) M3rd


This I don't understand. I get this first chord:

DGAbC / FA#D


But, what's going on after that, I don't know how to get to the next chord. I pray that I've made myself a bit clearer. 

ohhhhhhh! i see what you haveing a problem......

DGAbC / FA#D____/ ACF   =i want you to move ya right hand off the fa#d to the acf while ya playing the dgAbC, IT'S SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN AT ONE TIME.....JUST PLAY THE FIRST WHOLE CHORD, THEN SLIDE YA RIGHT HAND DOWN TO THE NEXT CHORD......SORRY FOR THE CONFUSION....

[aljeres]

I am not fully convinced like I said before i have known about this idea for years now and it does work most of the time in knowing at least the hot points as you say or the home base chords



but there are so many songs i have encountered that broke that rule so violently i forgot the rule exists i cant think of any right now

I do worship by john p kee

and the madness of some of Hez songs which seem to be in two keys at once

but over all the concept works and from what I understand everysong can be broken down to 1-4-5

I just dont see it yet

THIS IS A REAL MATTER OF INTERPUTATION.....CONTEMPARARY MUSIC, CANNOT EVEN BEGIN TO BE LOOKED AT ON THE SAME PLANE AS TRADITIONAL THEORY!
I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW TRADITIONAL THEORY IS CHALLEDGED BECAUSE ITS GOT TO SEEM CRAZY AT TIMES, THE STUFF PEOPLE ARE DOING TO MUSIC AND CHORDS, AND PROGRESSIONS......THE ONLY WAY TO REALLY UNDERSTAND CONTEMPARARY, AND THE BOARD AS A WHOLE IS TO STUDY JAZZ......BECAUSE IT ISNT BOUND BY RULES, THE RULES ARE ACCORDING TO THE BEHOLDER......I HATE TO MESS FOLKS UP, BUT THEIR REALLY IS NO SUCH THING AS PLAYING IN A KEY AT ALL, ONCE YOU UNDERSTAND THIS BOARD.....LEARNING A KEY BECOMES A FOUNDATION OF A SORT, IS ALL. BUT DEFINITLY NOT THE WHOLE....ONLY PART, IN CONCEPT, BUT IN ULTIMATE PERSPECTIVE, YOU PLAY IN ALL KEYS TO PLAY THE BOARD........WHEN I PLAY, I FIND A KEY.....FROM THERE, I PLAY ACCORDING TO WHERE EVER I AM ON THE BOARD....FOR INSTANCE; IF MY BASS IS ON THE Eb, AND LET'S SAY I AM IN Ab, AND IT'S THE 5 AND IM GOING TO THE 1, I'LL GET THERE LIKE I AM IN THE KEY OF Eb......SIMPLE AS THAT! SO PEOPLE WHO ARE PLAYING A A SINGLE KEY ARE LIMITED.......AND ITS NOT DESIGNED TO HOLD LIMITATIONS.........PLAYING IS BUILT AROUND 3'S, AND 6'S.......ONCE YOU FIGURE THIS OUT, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO FIGURE OUT, JUST PRACTICE........THE WORD IS TETERTIA, I THINK, MAYBE YOU KNOW THIS WORD BETTER THAN ME, BUT I KNOW WHAT IT MEANS.....3'S, AND 6'S......GOD BLESS!!!!!!!!!!!!

[diverse379]

thats deep aljiers

i am almost there with you bro

like just can barely see the light from your lamp

i often use the chords from the key a fifth up

i know what you are saying is right because when you get to the upper levels of music college like the masters level they begin to tell you that any chord can go to any chord and like you said the barrieres between the keys begin to melt away

I am still stuck in the key mentality but i am slowly getting liberated from it

I wish I could apply what you are saying it would make my life easier

[aljeres]

thats deep aljiers

i am almost there with you bro

like just can barely see the light from your lamp

i often use the chords from the key a fifth up

i know what you are saying is right because when you get to the upper levels of music college like the masters level they begin to tell you that any chord can go to any chord and like you said the barrieres between the keys begin to melt away

I am still stuck in the key mentality but i am slowly getting liberated from it

I wish I could apply what you are saying it would make my life easier

i really believein my heart, the greatest challedge isnt playing it!, it's understanding it! but i say, if ya just go ahead and play it, you'll start to see it!
if i asked you to go to any one single key and i asked you to play, the beginning part to, lets sayyyyyy umm, " oh how i love jesus "...
ok, so when i play this part, ( which is the first part ) most will begin to sing at my church, i play these chords numerically....
1-2-3-6....the sus, at the end of the word jesus will put me on the 6 going to the 2 because the next part says' oh, how ect )....so anyways....pick any song ya want and just do it the same pattern! but now you will enter into ya real challenge.....because most will do everything they know to play it with a melody......and that will be impossible! to me the best way to really see how it all goes together is playing it, and ignoring the melody when ya practice......it doesnt matter what song ya select......but start of with the slow worship stuff like i love you, or in the name of jesus.....it will sound wierd but after doing it for a while, you will apply it in real time during service, and you will see how it works.....now what will you notice after practicing like this......

1 - patterns
2 - non - melodic voicings
3 - relationships
4 - simplicity; moving around board....

remember, we play with an 8 chord or 7 chord basic pattern to start!
we have 4 basic patterns to start!
12 basic keys...
we're just going to forget keys for a sec, just to apply the theory....which means think less, and listen in a different way, for a second!