The first JAmes Hall Albulm is it really all that?

[Metronome]

true that you have to use his sound sparingly because it is non traditional even by contemporary standards


my ears are opening up to it

AMEN to that.  i was in Church playing a traditional 1-4-2-5 devotional call and response and I went James hall Crazy.  i turned it around and started playin the whole thing minor, then I played it diminished. My uncle/pastor just looked at me, laughed and said "dude, you don't play for James Hall".  Now when backing him up while he preaches, he loves when I playin allof those off chords behind him.  But if you goona try to play that style, you DEFINITELY gotta know when and where in the service to  do so.

James Hall is the truth! 

 A lot of people are taking his style and implementing it.  Even Tye had that James Hall style in 'Sinking' and 'Still Have Joy' 

Wow! i though I was the only one who noticed that.  That has that James hall sound all day on those to songs.

[vtguy84]

Wow! i though I was the only one who noticed that.  That has that James hall sound all day on those to songs.

Oh no sir!  I picked up on that the first few seconds of the song......just CLASSIC

[bobby1361]

Just had to jump in, those of us from NYC who are in their 40's love James Hall.  But let me drop this on you, that James Hall style while unique it is not NEW!  Back in the 70's you had guys like Nat Townsley(Bishop now and also drummer Nat Townsley Jr.s dad), and of course the late great Benny Cummings who if you listen to his music today, it is as if he is alive right now.  His music was 20 years ahead of its time.   The James Hall sound is closley tied to Benny Cummings! Donnie McKlurkin used to sing with Benny Cummings.  Benny's musicans where Antione White, Cliff Hawkins both on keys, Jeffrey White on bass, Bobby Walker on drums and Benny himself on keys!  let me tell you what, James Hall & Hez's bands have nothing on those guys back in the day! In the early 1980's you also had Jeffery White & the Soul Stirring Crusade Choir(where Hez got his start)! I have one of his albums on tape and over 20 years later it is still off the hook!  james for sure copied from some of these guys!  And that no dis, because those guys were awesome!  I really wish all of you could hear some of their music it would blow your mind!
The brooklyn sound in NYC is hot! 

[diverse379]

I love where this post is going

one thing that metronome said about taking a progression making it minor and then making it diminished is very true indeed a lot of what we hear in hjames hall and hez is different harmonic treatments to a melody

whe I was studying with melvin I heard him say every bass note can go with any chord it all depends on how you are resolving where you are going to or coming from and it is this thought process that confuses the theoretical musician like myself because it is completely out the box

but now that i am using just my ear and not trying to rely on theory i am able to process a lot more of James Halls sound.

[bobby1361]

diverse I remeber you saying your from Queens!  Since you studied with Melvin have you ever got a chance to see Butch Heyward play!  Man he is the truth.  You know that a lot of guys who had some classical training find the Broolyn sytle kind of difficult because of the odd fingering required.  If you had started with a guy like Melvin first it would be 2nd nature.  When I first started going to Butch for lessons  I had a hard time.  I had not been trained classically but was taught by a classically trained pianist.  So all of my gospel organ style I developed on my own.  When I started with Butch at 19 I completly changed my style to the Brooklyn/Butch Heyward sound.  Its funny because guys I who heard me before going to Butch knew right away I had been going to him and to this day when I do play ( which is very rare) I still play that Butch Heyward style!
Good luck with Melvin, man you are blessed to have him as a teacher!

[Bronzee]

I love Jame Hall style of Music..I wish i can play it. I have his best hits CD..and his latest..I can't stop playing it..its very annointed to me. I love them sopranos..they be singing..James..arrange his songs like I wanted to hear when i was a kid.  He and his singers are the greatest to me.  i gonna get his songbooks..

[vtguy84]

i gonna get his songbooks..

James Hall has no songbooks (to my knowledge)....they would be 200+ pages long

[diverse379]

exactly its not the amount of pages but who could  notate the illness of reggie the sickness of melvin the crazyness of john peters and the out thereness of james in notation

i wish there was a book out

but i guess we just have to use our ears

[Muziqmann]

Just had to jump in, those of us from NYC who are in their 40's love James Hall.  But let me drop this on you, that James Hall style while unique it is not NEW!  Back in the 70's you had guys like Nat Townsley(Bishop now and also drummer Nat Townsley Jr.s dad), and of course the late great Benny Cummings who if you listen to his music today, it is as if he is alive right now.  His music was 20 years ahead of its time.   The James Hall sound is closley tied to Benny Cummings! Donnie McKlurkin used to sing with Benny Cummings.  Benny's musicans where Antione White, Cliff Hawkins both on keys, Jeffrey White on bass, Bobby Walker on drums and Benny himself on keys!  let me tell you what, James Hall & Hez's bands have nothing on those guys back in the day! In the early 1980's you also had Jeffery White & the Soul Stirring Crusade Choir(where Hez got his start)! I have one of his albums on tape and over 20 years later it is still off the hook!  james for sure copied from some of these guys!  And that no dis, because those guys were awesome!  I really wish all of you could hear some of their music it would blow your mind!
The brooklyn sound in NYC is hot! 

What you kno bout Benny Cummings? Jus kiddin. It's nice to see someone who know's what they're talkin about.  Also The Institutional Radio had a sound similar to those mentioned as well.  Nat Townsley's album was definatly HOT!! I have and listen to it all the time.  It was way ahead of it's time.

[bobby1361]

Muziqmann you gotta to be from NYC becuase not too many cats have Nat Townsley album let alone remeber his music.  And you are right his music was also ahead of its time just like Benny Cummings!  I also failed to mention guys like (Bishop) JC White and the JC White Singers, John Hason and the John Hason Singers, Benny Diggs and his group. There were several other small groups. 

But you also had some great choirs: Of Course the Institutional Radio Choir, Triboro Mass, Bishop Billy Robinson and the Garden Of Prayer Cathedral choir, Bishop Huie Rogers and the Bibleway Mass Choir.  Man the 1970's and  80's in  NYC was gospel crazy!  It was gospel music Heaven!
Man I really miss those days!
Bobby

[csharp57]

Hey, I'm new here and this topic jumped at me right away.  I am from NYC and to the many that study "worship" at the BROOKLYN SOUND.  I find it to become very boring and over the top.  Don't get me wrong I LOVE god is in control, but the way too many organist up here that "bite" Melvin's and Butch's style have me shake my head after the first five songs played the BROOKLYN WAY.  I total try to go the other way on my approach to gospel.  After hearing Tonex last album I like where is music is more than ours. 

I even turned one of Butch's students on to Tonex (Tonex is that liked here) he came back and told me its the best he's heard in a while.  The way the organists here play is greedy.  There is no room for any other instrument other than bass.  I like when the organist plays with others not all over everything.

Oh, and I may get in trouble for this (people kinda know me in NYC) but Melvin always looks soooo bored playing the organ.

[bobby1361]

Hey Sharp its not about everyone "BITING" Butchs style its about the respect that he deserves here in NYC because the way he and others play here.  Butch is well respected all over the world.  He has traveled the world and has students in London, parts of Africa and even in Japan.  Man tell me what gospel organinst is that well known today?  And don't even talk about someone so humble, when I first met him over 20 years ago he was so nice and treated me like I was his brother.  He never bragged about what he had accomplished and never showed off!  Now that is the way we all should be!
I must admit Butch and Melvin do play like the are bored but as a musican it should not be about you but the singers and the lyrics!  Why do you think some of the best Gospel and R&B singers have the best musicans they can find to play for them?

Of course the late Billy Preston, the late Kenny Lupper, Eld Jonathan Greer, Hubert Powell, and so many others were and are great in thier own right.  Hey lets not forget the COGIC/ Twinky Clark style as well as the West coast sound of, James Clevland, Edwin Hawkins, Andre Crouch and others.  What about the awesome guys out of Detroit?  Those guys ain't no joke either. 

[musiqisme26]

The way the organists here play is greedy.  There is no room for any other instrument other than bass.  I like when the organist plays with others not all over everything.

Oh, and I may get in trouble for this (people kinda know me in NYC) but Melvin always looks soooo bored playing the organ.

what!!!!!!!! lets face it especially on the east coast the organ is the primary gospel/church instrument and we are still more into choir and traditional church more than the this new style of inspirational style pop christian type of music. also if you listen to most james hall albums especialy after john peters started to play with them melvin always play in the background and john peters is out front. melvin in general has a very laid back demeanor thats why he appears to looks bored he's not a 17 yr old care free musician

[diverse379]

It seems the tide has turned a little in this post

to speak not in authority but as a former student of Melvin crispell and a current student of charles minor both musicians came up under butch
both have written and played on hez albulms

i will say this

melvinlearned from butch but put melvin in his music

currently charles is steering me away from the brooklyn sound because of its limitations

there are so many styles out there
they all are good in there own right and no one stlye is suprerior

i just want to perfect my organ playing and using a little brooklyn a little thomas whitfield a little midwest chicago detroit sound its all good

I dont want to be a clone of anybody

when mel;vin taught me for two years he emphasised putting myself in the music
his favorite expression was tasters choice

in ohther words do you

he never insisted that i play a chord the exact way he did he encouraged me to find myself

so with that being said
I l;ove james hall but i wouldnt want to play a whole service like that

i think the thomas whitfield sound is more to my liking then james hall

but i love brooklyn for the edge they bring

as we continue to write let us be mindful that people will differ from us in their opinions

[musiqisme26]

It seems the tide has turned a little in this post

to speak not in authority but as a former student of Melvin crispell and a current student of charles minor both musicians came up under butch
both have written and played on hez albulms

i will say this

melvinlearned from butch but put melvin in his music

currently charles is steering me away from the brooklyn sound because of its limitations

there are so many styles out there
they all are good in there own right and no one stlye is suprerior

i just want to perfect my organ playing and using a little brooklyn a little thomas whitfield a little midwest chicago detroit sound its all good

I dont want to be a clone of anybody

when mel;vin taught me for two years he emphasised putting myself in the music
his favorite expression was tasters choice

in ohther words do you

he never insisted that i play a chord the exact way he did he encouraged me to find myself

so with that being said
I l;ove james hall but i wouldnt want to play a whole service like that

i think the thomas whitfield sound is more to my liking then james hall

but i love brooklyn for the edge they bring

as we continue to write let us be mindful that people will differ from us in their opinions

i love your post it to me summarizes the principle all musicians should hold to know whast u like but never downplay someone esle cuz they like say aaron lindsey over john peters. its about your taste and preference

[Muziqmann]

Yeah! I'm from NY.  Musicians from NY are very aggressive, and most learned to play w/ just a drummer accompanying them so it is hard for them to adjust to playing w/ other musicians or in a band.  I love the Brookyn/NY COGIC styles, but most young musicians in NY, NJ, Conn. sound alike.  Me and some of my young musician friends are shying away from the NY style of organ and discovering our own.

[Muziqmann]

Muziqmann you gotta to be from NYC becuase not too many cats have Nat Townsley album let alone remeber his music.  And you are right his music was also ahead of its time just like Benny Cummings!  I also failed to mention guys like (Bishop) JC White and the JC White Singers, John Hason and the John Hason Singers, Benny Diggs and his group. There were several other small groups. 

But you also had some great choirs: Of Course the Institutional Radio Choir, Triboro Mass, Bishop Billy Robinson and the Garden Of Prayer Cathedral choir, Bishop Huie Rogers and the Bibleway Mass Choir.  Man the 1970's and  80's in  NYC was gospel crazy!  It was gospel music Heaven!
Man I really miss those days!
Bobby

JC white and his singers were tough!  ALL the choirs you mentioned were great as well.  Institutional will always be my favorite.

[bobby1361]

I must admit my mom bought the Institutinal Album One More Day in (I think) 1971 and I was hooked and I was only 6 years old but learned how to play the drums with that album.  So of course they became my favorite choir. With Bibleway Mass and Jeffrey White a close 2nd and 3rd.   By the way talk about 2 musicans who were so good that they were playing on everybodys album coming out of NYC, Jeffery White (on bass) and Bobby Walker(on drums).  These guys were like were in their early teens (13, 14, 15) when they were playing on Institutional, Bibleway, Benny Cummings, and Tribobro Mass.  I tell you what these guys and a lot of the old school guys were really unbelievable to be so good, so humble and so young!

[diverse379]

fantastic history brothers

i too am at the prompting of my instructor moving toward the midwest sound

i dont really know what that is exactly yet but what i have been learning so far i like

I still love the aggressiveness of the brooklyn sound


but understanding thomas whitfield and twinkie is just as important to me

[Loopy]

I'm a little late responding to this thread, but I must chime in and say that I have followed James Hall since he first appeared on the national scene with "God Is In Control" (as I have followed many, many artists) and James Hall goes down in the history of my listening to music (all of my life) as the ONLY artists to NEVER, EVER, EVER disappoint me!! I have never purchased a James Hall album that I did not like!! James Hall & WAP are the best gospel artists out there and James is an ARTIST in every sense of the word!!


I love his music, the band, the Brooklyn sound, the jazz infusion, classical infusion, avant garde, gothis ctyle, the whole nine yards!! I CAN'T WAIT until his new album drops!!!!!