Do you think Buring CD's is Wrong ???

[LisaE]

I have been reading through this and this question may have been answered already, but I would like some clarification.

I am part of a small Praise&Worship team for our singles ministry (which is currently on hold right now), and what the approach has been we pick 5-6 songs we want to sing, then, whoever is responsible of putting the songs on CDs to distribute to the team, that person would buy the Split tracks/demo tracks of the songs and burn them on one CD and copies of that CD is made to distrubte to the team so they can learn their parts. We do not have a band (I am the only piano player for this team right now), so the team is singing with Split tracks/demo tracks for now.

Question: Is that illegal. If so, what would be the alternative, because I can easily hear the team protesting wanting to buy their own CDs of the performance tracks so they can learn the songs.

2nd part: Also 2 CDs are burned with the Demo/split tracks of the songs to give to the person who is playing these CDs on a master soundboard. The reason why it is 2 CDs is so the transition from one song to the other is easier.

Question: What would be the alternation for that person if it is illegal for us to burn the CDs for him so he can play the tracks on the sound board for us to sing along to?

Thanks for the feedback!
Andrea

[Dredakyst]

That's an incorrect and extreme comparison.

Not really my friend… This is a really pointless debate… and everyone have views…Left or Right… Personally if someone gets saved, healed or delivered from a burnt CD then.. I am sure God won’t revoke their salvation or restoration

I am very surprised of the lack of education concerning this thread.  If we ever want to move forward, we really need to educate ourself more.  This is really ridiculous.

Burning CD's is against the law, plain and simple.  Its not even a debate.

Honestly I agree... but I see that peeps have strong convictions and thru my sarcasm, I don't want to encourage this type of activity...especially for profit… LET’S make that clear

[LifeInReturn]

Well I have a question.

On my site - http://www.lifeinreturn.com - I have 3 radio blogs full of songs from CDs that I own. These are CDs I bought with my own $. Well they are available for listen on my website in my radio blogs.

Now, I have received emails from people who have told me how thankful they are that I have the radio blogs, and proceeding to tell me how much they have been blessed and ministered to because of the songs. Is this wrong ? I am not giving the music files away, they are not in mp3 format. They can't be ripped from my site. They are in a format that only the radio blog can read.

So... is that wrong ?

And with EVERY SINGLE CD that I purchase, I rip it immediately to my hard drive. I do this for many reasons:
1 - To preserve the CD. This way if it breaks or scratches, I have a backup.
2 - I have an MP3 player that I listen to around the house or while I am studying. I can add these MP3s to my player and listen to what I want when I want.
3 - If I have a certain playlist of songs that I want to listen to while on my computer, I can add them to Windows Media Player, and not have to worry about switching CD after CD after CD.
4 - My car radio has an MP3 player, so I can make a CD full of about 8 albums to listen to versus having to change my CDs while driving.
5 - Of course, the radio blogs on my website.

I have to say I am in agreeance with my boy Dre on this one.

And I do have a question to pose:
If a choir sings a Kirk song every Sunday at church, and gets invited to another church and they sing that same song... is it wrong because Kirk isn't getting paid royalties from their performance...

And friends have given me copies of CDs that they have burnt from CDs they rightfully own, so that I can evaluate and decide if I want to buy it.

Just my 2 pennies... now let me go and get my donkey out this ditch!!!!!!!!!!

[BBoy]

Yes, burning CD's is wrong, whatever the justification.

It matters not what personal convictions are. If a person really made you angry, you might feel completely justified in trying to knock him or her into next week . . . but feeling like they deserved it wouldn't keep you out of jail, because it is still assault.

It matters not if you are on your way to church and you are late. Speeding will still get you a ticket, because it is against the law and violates another person's right to a safe enviroment.

Imagine there is a car lot with lots of cars and vans for sale. You didn't want to buy a van, but you knew you could put it to good use. The owner of the car lot might not even know you took one van. If you steal one of those vans and use it to take people to church on Sunday and midweek Bible study, does that make your stealing the van alright?

What if a person gets saved and delivered at a service that they arrived to in that stolen van. Of course that person who was saved won't lose their salvation. But the van was still stolen, and the person who stole it needs to return it, buy it, or otherwise make it right!

If I am a baker and a person takes three dozen loaves of bread out of my store, it is theft. It doesn't matter if they use two dozen to feed the homeless. Of course those who had their stomachs filled aren't going to continue to be hungry because the bread was stolen. BUT IT WAS STILL THEFT. They still stole from me, and they need to make it right.

Copyright laws are in place to protect an artist from theft. If you were the recording artist and you needed to sell a certain amount of CD's so you can pay all the bills and record again, then people would change their tunes about burning CD's. Then they would see it as theft.

That is one of the primary reasons christian CD's are so expensive, everyone keeps burning copies. They say it is okay because they are "spreading the gospel" or "using it for someone else" But it is still theft, and that is why christian material is so high-priced . . . we are paying for someone else's theft!
 
Let's read and study the copyright laws and follow them, regardless of what personal convictions a person may have.

Be Blessed

[SisterT]

Amen BBOY!!!

We have all given the law and what God expects. People still want to justify their actions. Wrong is wrong....sin is sin....you can't dress it up and say you are sinning for the good.

We can go on and on with this, but in the end it is a matter of choice whether one chooses to do the right thing or chooses to do wrong and deal with the consequences.

[Dredakyst]

Well B-Boy here's a Question… for you

 under the copyright law shouldn’t every tape ministry in America be sued for recording copywritten material and then selling it as their own...

(Now I know some churches cut the songs and have just the sermon…)

If we going to be nick pickey, shouldn't all the rules apply?

I mean even at secular concerts they tell us not to bring in video cameras or tape recorders...

AND TO BE CLEAR...

These are questions and replies to make one think... and not be an donkey

[LifeInReturn]

So are we to throw our personal convictions out the door, Bboy ? SisterT, Do you think God will only use what methods YOU feel He should use ? That is what is wrong with a lot of things in the church these days. We think God should move in the way we think He should move, therefore we often block the move of God because WE limit Him.

As long as you're not selling these CDs for profit and bootlegging them... and so on... For all the reasons I named specifically in my post, I see nothing wrong with it.

Like Dre said...

This is a really pointless debate… and everyone have views…Left or Right… Personally if someone gets saved, healed or delivered from a burnt CD then.. I am sure God won’t revoke their salvation or restoration

True true.

So if someone hears a song on a burnt CD that a friend gave them, and that changes their heart towards God, and they get saved, well what... forget that ? Man, please, God works in ways that we could NEVER imagine. His ways are not like ours neither are His thoughts THANKFULLY. Just because you think He can't use a method to reach people does not mean He can't.

I say the above in love.

What I will pay attention to is what God tells me versus man because man is man and all men will die someday, so therefore I will listen to my Father. He is the end all be all... I respect that you guys have your convictions, but they are just that - your convictions. What may convict Bobby may not convict Becky down the street, but that is not to say they do not have equal faith and knowledge in our God...

But that is all I will say on this topic.  
May God bless you all in Christ.

[4hisglory]

We can go on and on with this, but in the end it is a matter of choice whether one chooses to do the right thing or chooses to do wrong and deal with the consequences.

Yeah, you are right, I am just goign to leave it alone but I'm really concerned with some of the ignorance that is running around here.  People are saying what the feel as oppose to knowing what the law says.  Its so sad.

We need to do more to educate our people better.

[benniedm]

This is For LifeINReturn and everyone

GOD's Standards OVERRIDES any personal Convictions!! Your convictions should line up with GOD's word. Yea true, a person may be blessed by a burnt CD you give them. But, as for you, YOU are in sin for giving it!! And, plus if the person know that receiving a burnt CD is wrong then they are are in sin just as bad!!

Why???? Because you know What's Right!

JAMES 4:7 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

THERE is no IFS, ANDS, Or BUTS. Let the LORD have his way SAINTS. Stop dipping, be save FORREAL. JUST DON'T DO IT. You can teach your praise team without burnt CDS. You can teach every part without Burnt CDs. All it take is a willing and obedient HEART and SACRIFICE. Salvation may be free, but you sho' do got to pay surcharges. Those surcharges are you giving your life totally to him.  You don't have to do everything everyone else do. BE HOLY. BE SAVE. BE FREE IN GOD.

Don't You know you will eat the GOOD of the land if you just be OBEDIENT. Half of yall wondering why your music ministy aint coming forth. YOU AINT OBEDIENT. Some of us so wrapped up in mess, God is going to pour out Judgement. REPENT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND.  TURN FROM YOUR WICKED WAYS!!!!

BE ENCOURAGE SAINTS, AND LETS BE SAVED, LIFE RIGHT AND WATCH GOD BLESS YOUR RIGHT!!!

[benniedm]

Also while I am on my soap box...

If you think that God's hand is on you because you gave a burnt cd away and they got bless or saved by it and everything is alright, THINK AGAIN SAINTS!!!

MATT 6:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Don't do so called great things for GOd and end up in hell anyway because You did not do things GOD's way nor live GODLY.  Don't let GOD use you then loose ya. Depart from sin so he wont depart from you. God has no respect of persons. Shall we continue in sin?? No! God loves you!!!!!! HE wants the best from you. But if you continue to do things God is not please with  You are going to hell with a scholarship with free room and board. Not saying we all prefect, but where is your heart in the matter. Some of the replies I have seen on this make it seem like some of you all going to do what you going to do anyway no matter what anyone tell. Lets be save! Thank you here's your receipt!

Matt 6:23 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

LOVE YALLL!!!

[LisaE]

I have to agree with the last couple of posts - God's Word has the final say over man's opinion, personal convictions, or whatever.

I over the years have enjoyed the ministry through song of Kirk Franklin, Israel Houghton, Martha Munizzi, Donnie McClurkin, the list can go on. Those I have mentioned by name and others are songwriters as well as singers. I don't want any of them getting "gyped" out of their rightful share of royalities, and burning CDs, from what I have been reading here, does that.

I may have missed this due to the debate going on here, so this may have to be a separate thread - how does one go around about having the Praise team learn their different parts in the songs they are going to sing without having to burn CDs? Because I know some people are going to be hollering about having to buy their own copies if they have to!  :?

Thanks!
Andrea

[SisterT]

.... how does one go around about having the Praise team learn their different parts in the songs they are going to sing without having to burn CDs? Because I know some people are going to be hollering about having to buy their own copies if they have to!  :?

Yes Andrea you missed it. If you check out page 1 of this thread I listed suggestions. Also in another comment I suggested downloading songs from Wal-Mart for $ .88.

It may benefit you to go back and read the posts.

[ddw4e]

This is weird, I am doing a persuasive speech 2moro and was goin to do something in this area...I mainly goin to focus in downloading music/movies so this thread may help me for my speech

[benniedm]

LISA E

Sister T made good suggestion such as go to walmart.com and buy the song itself and pass it out. Also, you may want to question the effectiveness of passing out cd no the less buying them. I say because, when I used to pass out copies, no one listened to them anyway. And, if they did it was just to enjoy the music not for parts. That maybe something you may want to look at. I know it may not be the same for all praise groups but I know it was for mine!!!! Keep up the work!

[BBoy]

And here is the response to the above questions, which are really good questions. I know that the questions are posed to make one think, which is a good thing.

Now, to answer the question . . . which, as I said, was a good one and very thought provoking.

Being guilty of wrongdoing has nothing to do with feeling like you were wrong. Guilt is a fact, not a feeling.

Part of the problem here may be that many just simply don't understand that music is the legal property of the artist.  

I might feel justified in stealing bread to feed the poor, but that doesn't mean that it is ok. Whether I feel guilty about it or not doesn't change the fact that I stole what doesn't belong to me.

The right to reproduce copyrighted music belongs only to the artist. Therefore, it is theft to reproduce it . . . whether a person feels like it or not. Whether they get caught or not. Whether someone understands it, agrees with it, or will ever follow it or not.

The copyright laws are placed, as the Bible applies in this context, to protect the artists who make their living by recording. It is there for their good. Copyright law says that to reproduce music is theft, because once a person creates a song it is their legal property.

As stated before, the reason why Christian CD's are so expensive is that many people are bootlegging . . . and it is illegal. We are all paying for the theft of a few!

Now, to the question of whether or not tapes with the gospel should or should not be sold.  

Is the Gospel their legal property? Or anyone's legal property?

Be Blessed

[LisaRawlsWilson]

Did you know you can buy one song from a cd at Wal-Mart.com and download it for $ 0.88. I'm sure other companies offer the same service,.

I have done this often, when I just needed one song. It's legal and that's another way you can buy a song for a choir member or song leader.

Thanks SisterT, I've been struggling with this issue for a while.  As a songwriter, I understand the idea that people making multiple copies of my music to teach their choir cuts into my profit, and most of the people doing it are the people in the church, who also make up the largest demographic buying my music.  But as a church musician, I know how expensive it would be to buy copies of multiple cds for everyone who needs one.  Our church has five musicians in the band, five different choirs, and three services per Sunday.  On any given Sunday three choirs will sing at least three songs apiece.  If each choir sings three new songs by three different artists...well, you do the math.  The $.88 per song per copy would be a lot less expensive, and we'd be legal.  I'll bring it up to our Director of Music tonight!

P.S. I've heard of blanket licenses for sheet music that churches can purchase to make multiple copies of sheet music, but I don't know if it applies to CDs as well.  Anyone know anything about it?

[LisaE]

First: Sister T thanks, I went back and reviewed your comments and I also took a quick look at Walmart.com. Another good point was made about the effectiveness of burning CDs if the praise team is not even listening to them anyway for their parts.

Our Praise team is on hold right now due to various reasons (e.g. people not showing up for rehearsals!  :? ) so I'm not sure what will be the direction of this praise team.

Second: I remembered one website a friend of mine pointed out to me that's helpful: Christian Copyright Licensing International. I found a lot of good information there:  http://www.ccli.com/UnitedStates.cfm

[benniedm]

LisaE

You are a great person!

[benniedm]

I want to validate myself. If anyway my comments sound harsh or offended anyone, I apologize. I did not what to seem "Holy art thou". Eventhough I was serious in my comments, sometimes we can say things that protray the wrong image especially church folk. I said everything in love. God Bless!  :lol:    

[Dooley]

I just say this...I make a mixed CD for my musicians if we have a concert, I dont see anything wrong with that.  MAybe it is, but I dont see anything wrong withthat