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Author Topic: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues  (Read 2470 times)

Offline allaround

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Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« on: November 08, 2011, 09:54:16 PM »
Long story short: I found a keyboard/piano instructor and says that i should learn to play the blues FIRST before I can go into jazz, R&B-ish, gospel stuff.

Is he right???

Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2011, 02:50:09 PM »
Yea that I know. But coming from gospel perspective....is it a good idea?

Offline musallio

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2011, 09:24:19 AM »
What exactly would you be learning in the blues silly-bus?

How will the entire syllabus be structured [outline/ overview]?

If there is a specific reason why you should start with blues [as Sketch..] has alluded, then it's fine, but I don't necessarily think that it is a must to start with the blues.

Ultimately, everything depends on what you want to achieve- for example, your approach will be slightly different if you want to play shout music [genre] versus Richard Smallwood type of music [gospel]. Do you need to learn blues 1st in order to play R.S. music effectively?
So even with gospel, the short answer is it depends.

Finally, remember that music has alot to do with feel. There are underlying concepts [basic scales we have to use]- all music follows this guide. The rest has to do with the feel or rhythm.

You have probably selected your teacher because s/he has a strong blues flavor/ connection? go ahead and learn blues 1st and then develop your own feel ;)
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Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2011, 07:53:21 PM »
Im not trying to learn the blues, but this is what my instructor said i should do.

Syllabus-wise i guess its just major concepts of the blues he's going to teach.

I just want to play gospel music, with a strong backround in jazz.

Trust me I know all about the feel part.

I just wanted to know if it is really necessary for me to learn blues first.

Thanks

Offline floaded27

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2011, 10:45:20 PM »
its not necessary (as most things), but it will have an effect on your playing. Not really a bad thing. But the blues elements will shine more. Its kinda like how folks that start in classical and then play gospel will sound different than the guys who start in jazz or rock or even blues. But they still play gospel.

Maybe your teacher feels that since gospel originated from blues to attack it at the source, which is not a bad methodology, but if YOU want your sound to reflect jazz, then you should learn jazz first. That just makes sense.

But does he mean learn to play the blues first or STUDY blues? I think its a difference. With just playing, you dont have to go into much depth, which wont take much from you. I learned funk on bass before i really got into gospel, simply because my instructors were funk players. I learned it, but I didnt get too deep into it, but it reflects a bit in my playing, and I actually notice where it comes out in other players, making the gospel songs they play easier to pick up.

I think the thought is that blues may make LEARNING gospel easier since a lot of it is derived from it. Which is true. Coming from a jazz background, there's still a learning curve to gospel because its different, but once you get it, you can add the jazz elements. I think the thought is, its a different approach in not knowing gospel vs. not knowing how to play at all. So it may be based on your level.
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Offline musallio

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #5 on: November 11, 2011, 04:39:02 AM »
I agree absolutely with what floaded has said. Whatever you learn first will always reflect in how you advance in your playing.
If you have a basic understanding of blues, then that should be good enough for you to play traditional gospel songs.
But if you will play in a church that does not sing traditional gospel songs, then THERE IS NO NEED FOR YOU TO START BY LEARNING BLUES [that is not to say fight with your instructor- you have selected him/ her, so go by his/ her method :)]

I love the way my sister plays- she was taught by a jazz artist/ instructor- so that always comes out in her playing. Me on the other hand, I learnt over the internet and by picking up certain techniques here and there, so I have my own "weird" style that's very versatile- cutting across various genres.

It won't hurt you to learn blues- it will give you some depth into gospel music- so go for it..
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Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #6 on: November 11, 2011, 05:04:03 AM »
Thanks for the feed back guys

Like I said before its mostly major concepts in blues that I would be learning, then go into jazz (Idk how deep though). My goal is to be able to play traditional and modern gospel with a strong foundation in jazz. My instructor say learning the blues first would give me a foundation.

It's nice knowing something but if its not necessary, I don't want to pay for it.

I know basic theory and can sorta play(I suck lol) so im desperate to learn. So besides that I just want play, and be decent at it.

I'll try and talk some more with my instructor, and ill try to get some more feedback from him. Thanks guys

Offline docjohn

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2011, 07:32:43 AM »
I'm curious to why you got a teacher+immediately start questioning him.If he's a better player;you'd be better off following his lead.

As far as genre'-there's so much overlap with all the styles in most music(apart from classical) there's not really any "true" forms today.

Look @ 40's,50's,60's-there was swing/bop/post bop/cool-different styles of jazz that evolved with specific player/schools.Today-players have such

resources to learn;we all have amalgamated styles.One of my MOM's told me;on organ I sound like J Smith/Charles Earland/Tower of Power/Earth Wind +Fire /Chicago goes to church !These are the cats I tried to sound like and it shows! a good thing

Listen to teach,find some players whose style(s) you dig,listen,practice,learn.There's a ton of killer players here who have all kinda study helps.

Sam (sound of joy) and Sebastion(wheatworks) and Jamal come to mind.

Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #8 on: November 11, 2011, 08:04:36 AM »
That's just how I am, I question any authority above me lol.

See that's the thing I don't want to sound like anybody else but myself. Being and sounding like myself has always been a thing of mine (musically).

I'm at position where I know quite a bit of theory, but I have hard time playing. Also finding a piano mentor, is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. But the guy I found, is good to the point where I can have strong basic foundations in gospel music. So I guess ima stick with him for while and see where he gets me.

He knows a lot from where I can tell, but isn't really afluent in todays gospel and rnb. When I'm done ill probably will sound like musician from the 70's. But overall I think I'm good for now Lol.

I just wanted some of your feedback, to see if I was on the right track starting out this way. Thanks again

Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2011, 11:10:02 AM »
Good analogy bro. Thanks, I've got a lot to thinky about and practice!

Offline docjohn

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2011, 03:48:46 PM »
hey all;hope you take this the right way;

see what PROVERBs says about respecting vs questioning authority.My dad actually gave me some pretty good advice( he was a drill instructor in WWll)- as long as somebody doesn't tell you to run butt nekid' in the cold-at least consider they may know more than you!

Unless you want to waste a tremendous amount of time-get over the idea that "you will be original".There is only one of all of us,but we reflect what has been distilled into us over time.What you do with that will be original,but like Solomon said-nothin' new under the sun.Driving yourself crazy to be "original" is just a form of bondage-like perfectionism.Study to be approved-NOT loco.

Offline floaded27

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2011, 10:49:45 PM »
That's just how I am, I question any authority above me lol.

See that's the thing I don't want to sound like anybody else but myself. Being and sounding like myself has always been a thing of mine (musically).

hope i dont offend either, but u got an issue that you really need to deal with.

questioning authority just to question it isnt the best thing. its not like he was going out of his way searching for a student. obviously that means he has something to show you. It doesnt mean you are stuck playing exactly like him. Your individuality will come out eventually.

If you dont want to sound like anyone else, quit now. But then you'll sound like all the other folks who dont play. If you play keyboard, you'll sound like someone who plays keyboard. you'll have your own elements, but theres only so much variety possible. if you're playing good music, you're bound to be doing similar things that some others are doing. what makes us different is the different combination of elements that we pick up along the way. Going out of your way to be different is often times counter productive.

He knows a lot from where I can tell, but isn't really afluent in todays gospel and rnb. When I'm done ill probably will sound like musician from the 70's.

you may be a bit mistaken here. all 3 of my bass teachers were heavy into 70s funk, and my primary teacher who i spent the most time learning from when i started didnt play gospel at all. so songs that i wanted to learn (basically saying show me how to play this song) he didnt know by name, but if i played it for him, he could pick it up and play. but they all had me listening to a lot of 70s stuff (even found i liked it). It helped with the foundation with my playing. But I never sounded like a 70s player, most likely because I wasnt playing 70s music. The mix of learning the gospel stuff and having that 70s funk teaching just made my playing more versatile. Besides, some gospel songs had a 70s feel and that came in handy.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2011, 07:21:52 AM »
I think you guys got the context of what I said wrong lol. Let's not diverge from the topic of this forum.  :) ;)

I see where both you guys are coming from in the aspect of uniqueness. I totally agree. Thanks again on your insight and wisdom.   :)

Offline thunderkat

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2011, 10:32:59 AM »
If it were me I'd learn the basics from him to build my foundation and then move on to study jazz.

Studying blues can be helpful more so with the "churchy" sounding music in which you will need to know the blues scales and how to use tri-tones.

 It's cool to have a contemporary sound but, you gotta be prepared to "take'm in" when the spirit is high.  ;)
(Classical progressions are also always an option in this case... just something else to think about.)

Learning jazz will help you improvise and broaden your musical vocabulary. It will teach you how to speak musically with your own voice, in the moment. I believe that's what every musician strives for anyway.

That's just my 2 cents. Hope it helps.

Offline floaded27

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2011, 11:49:08 AM »
I think you guys got the context of what I said wrong lol. Let's not diverge from the topic of this forum.  :) ;)

I see where both you guys are coming from in the aspect of uniqueness. I totally agree. Thanks again on your insight and wisdom.   :)

sorry. didnt mean to offend at all. the thing is, i know what thats like. i was like that many years ago. but once i changed that and was humble, i was able to learn so much from others, even folks who could NOT teach, but knew more and could do more than me.

Honestly, thats the SECRET to not sounding like anyone else and sounding like you. You LEARN from people and things that OTHERS won't, don't, and can't! You'll even be able to learn something from a beginner that you may be better than, but they do something in particular different from you. Once you notice yourself doing this, as you get better, you wont sound like anybody but you.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2011, 01:59:30 PM »
Bring your instructor some old gospel blues and let him teach you the concepts from there. He should be able to hear them and he gets an idea of that gospelized sound you may be looking for. My old piano teacher played jazz from sheet music. She could not fully teach me that gospel sound but she gave me a good foundation of understanding jazz theory.
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Offline allaround

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2011, 10:41:50 PM »
Already on it

Btw can anyone give a list gospel or jazz pianists/keyboardist I can start referencing on??? Thanks again!!!

Offline musallio

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Re: Your opinion............My instructor and the blues
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2011, 04:40:54 AM »
Already on it

Btw can anyone give a list gospel or jazz pianists/keyboardist I can start referencing on??? Thanks again!!!


Am lazy to type, but you can start looking here- yesterday's thread ;)
http://www.learngospelmusic.com/forums/index.php/topic,81687.0/topicseen.html

A number of great jazz names are there...
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