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Author Topic: Modes  (Read 13746 times)

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2008, 05:23:46 PM »
Man, this is shocking to me.  This is how I've been playing the bass.  I do it this way to minimize my chance of getting lost.  Other guitar and bass players (especially the 'Modes' group) are always telling me that I'm thinking wrong, that it's improper to, like, play minor but think major.  You know, no matter what I play, I lay it down on the major scale, instead of memorizing a new one (modes).  Like, most of the minor songs, to me, is easier to play looking at the major scale pattern and starting from the 6 and play into the scale, then run out of the scale pattern back to the 6 (which is really an overlap of the same scale).  Okay....

That is so not true.  Whatever thought process helps you play better, you keep doing you man.  Not everyone thinks the same, so what you doing is perfectly fine.  Plus, if you really think about it, w/out the major scale there wouldn't even be a minor scale.
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Offline Fingers!

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Re: Modes
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2008, 08:07:25 PM »
Thanks to you and Musallio for the encouragement.  I appreciate it.  I'm going to have more questions for you guys in the near future.

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #22 on: June 05, 2009, 06:27:51 AM »
Here's another great addition to the discussion on modes by fellow LGMer Dwreck:

We know that the Ionian scale is whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half (WWHWWWH). So, you have the C Ionian to begin with. Dealing with the modes I've discovered (though it may have always been known) that reversing the ionian mode would help me unlock the modal puzzle.

For example, C Ionian (WWHWWWH) is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. Reversing the Ionian mode (WWHWWWH) would result in C, Bb, Ab, G, F, Eb, Db, C. If I want to know what a C dorian is I would play a Bb scale beginning with the C as my tonic. If I want to play a C phrygian I would play an Ab scale beginning with the C as my tonic. C lydian would be a G scale, C mixolydian would be an F scale, C aeolian would be an Eb scale, and C locrian woild be a Db scale beginning with the C as the tonic.
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Offline Dwreck

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Re: Modes
« Reply #23 on: June 05, 2009, 12:18:55 PM »
Mostly play chords;
Are you referring to single-note chords or whole chords, like dropping in subs?
What I find interesting is how modes (chords) add flavor when moving around in a song. If I'm playing "The Star Spangled Banner" I would play:

L/H (Chords) - R/H (Melody)

F-B-E          G - E

G-C-E          C - E

G-B-D          G (B phrygian)

E-A-C          C

E-Ab-B         E - D (Ab phrygian)...     

Let's keep this going! You guys are getting me musically excited and stimulated.  ;D
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Offline dwest2419

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Re: Modes
« Reply #24 on: June 10, 2009, 12:49:38 PM »
Thank you! Man, it's about time people starting catching up with modes; because everywhere I went, it was as though I was speaking Spanish especially too gospel players, man!

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2009, 02:48:07 PM »
Thank you! Man, it's about time people starting catching up with modes; because everywhere I went, it was as though I was speaking Spanish especially too gospel players, man!

A lot of musicians know what the modes are (even if they don't know the name), we just don't use them a lot.
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Offline dwest2419

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Re: Modes
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2009, 03:52:04 PM »
A lot of musicians know what the modes are (even if they don't know the name), we just don't use them a lot.

Well, I always thought that the concept of applying modes would be to play - well you know - X over X, or Y over Y, precept upon precept, line by line.

If we were to play the I chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Ionian/Major scale mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the ii chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Dorian mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the iii chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Phrygian mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the IV chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Lydian mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the V chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Mixolydian mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the vi chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Aeolian/Natural minor mode to match its original chord, right?

If we were to play the vii* chord, we'll often assume that we should probably play the Locrian mode to match its original chord, right?

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2009, 04:05:41 PM »
Another thing is not too many people do runs for every chord. I actually hate dislike doing runs, but that's a whole other topic.

Ur logic using the scale degree chords and corresponding mode is theoretically sound, but does it sound good enough to be called musical? Are u playing the whole mode or parts of the mode?

I like the way u think man. I have similar thinking, build upon things u know with more complex things.
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Offline dwest2419

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Re: Modes
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2009, 06:04:44 PM »
Another thing is not too many people do runs for every chord. I actually hate dislike doing runs, but that's a whole other topic.

Ur logic using the scale degree chords and corresponding mode is theoretically sound, but does it sound good enough to be called musical? Are u playing the whole mode or parts of the mode?

I like the way u think man. I have similar thinking, build upon things u know with more complex things.

Well, I'm glad we have similar thinking...lol! ^_^

The next topic would probably be about learning how to play in mode keys. Since we have a basic of understanding of what modes to apply over the original chords; but we've barely scratched the surface of this thing. As often as we like to make Aeolian/Natural minor our mode key by making that vi chord in Ionian become our "i" chord in Aeolian, we forget about the wrest and don't apply that same concept to the other modes by making neither the ii(Dorian), iii(Phrygian), IV(Lydian), V(Mixolydian), or vii*(Locrian) chords become our 1 chord, and once we put do this new concept to work, I think it'll remove all of our limitlessness.

This is what happens when you would make these chords become your 1 chord, basically you'll still be in your main key, but all your doing or would be caught playing in a different mode key other Ionian or Aeolain that's all.

Mode Keys

Ionian - I ii iii IV V vi vii*   Dorian - i ii III IV v vi* VII

Phrygian - i II III iv v* VI vii      Lydian - I II iii iv* V vi vii
 
Mixolydian - I ii iii* IV v vi VII   Aeolian - i ii* III iv v VI VII

Locrian - i* II iii iv V VI vii      

Put this formula to work in the key of C.

C - Ionian/Major Key
I    ii    iii    IV    V    vi    vii*
Cmaj = I
Dmin = ii
Emin = iii
Fmaj = IV
Gmaj = V
Amin = vi
Bdim = vii*

D - Dorian
i    ii    III    IV    v    vi*    VII
Dmin = i   
Emin = ii
Fmaj = III   
Gmaj = IV   
Amin = v
Bdim = vi*   
Cmaj = VII

E - Phrygian
i    II    III    iv    v*    VI    vii
Emin = i
Fmaj = II
Gmaj = III
Amin = iv
Bdim = v*
Cmaj = VI
Dmin = vii

F - Lydian
I    II    iii    iv*    V    vi    vii
Fmaj = I
Gmaj = II
Amin = iii
Bdim = iv*
Cmaj = V
Dmin = vi
Emin = vii

G - Mixolydian 
I    ii    iii*    IV    v    vi    VII
Gmaj = I
Amin = ii
Bdim = iii*
Cmaj = IV
Dmin = v
Emin = vi
Fmaj = VII
   
A - Aeolian/Natural Minor
 i    ii*    III    iv    v    VI    VII
Amin = i
Bdim = ii*
Cmaj = III    
Dmin = iv
Emin = v
Fmaj = VI
Gmaj = VII

B - Locrian 
i*    II    iii    iv    V    VI    vii
Bdim = i*
Cmaj = II
Dmin = iii
Emin = iv
Fmaj = V
Gmaj = VI
Amin = vii

Its been said that...

Ionian mode/scale - Sounds more happy
Dorian mode/scale - Has a jazz sound
Phrygian mode/scale - Has rather a Spanish sound
Lydian mode/scale - Sounds more dreamy
Mixolydian mode/scale - Sounds kind of bluesy/rock n roll
Aeolian mode/scale - Strictly pure minor
Locrian mode/scale - Very dark and evil sound

I also notice that some of these same chord progression that we play in Ionian, could be written as something else in the other mode keys, but they still all have the same chords, though, but the best way to play in is to probably keep coming back to it so that, that ear hears it. Just imagine playing the typical I-IV-V-I or the IV-V-I or the V-IV-I in each mode key other Ionian and see what creativity we can get. Now, none of this info is new because the outsiders (the world) already knows about this, and they probably have already advanced in this new concept, but it seems as though like the church/musicians are just learning this stuff, and it seems as though we're trying to catch up with them.

Food for thought imo!

Offline berbie

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Re: Modes
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 10:32:21 PM »
I considered the matter fully and determined this.  I am not ready for modes. 

berbie

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2009, 07:33:50 AM »
Well, I'm glad we have similar thinking...lol! ^_^

The next topic would probably be about learning how to play in mode keys. Since we have a basic of understanding of what modes to apply over the original chords; but we've barely scratched the surface of this thing. As often as we like to make Aeolian/Natural minor our mode key by making that vi chord in Ionian become our "i" chord in Aeolian, we forget about the wrest and don't apply that same concept to the other modes by making neither the ii(Dorian), iii(Phrygian), IV(Lydian), V(Mixolydian), or vii*(Locrian) chords become our 1 chord, and once we put do this new concept to work, I think it'll remove all of our limitlessness.

This is what happens when you would make these chords become your 1 chord, basically you'll still be in your main key, but all your doing or would be caught playing in a different mode key other Ionian or Aeolain that's all.

Mode Keys

Ionian - I ii iii IV V vi vii*   Dorian - i ii III IV v vi* VII

Phrygian - i II III iv v* VI vii      Lydian - I II iii iv* V vi vii
 
Mixolydian - I ii iii* IV v vi VII   Aeolian - i ii* III iv v VI VII

Locrian - i* II iii iv V VI vii      


I also notice that some of these same chord progression that we play in Ionian, could be written as something else in the other mode keys, but they still all have the same chords, though, but the best way to play in is to probably keep coming back to it so that, that ear hears it. Just imagine playing the typical I-IV-V-I or the IV-V-I or the V-IV-I in each mode key other Ionian and see what creativity we can get. Now, none of this info is new because the outsiders (the world) already knows about this, and they probably have already advanced in this new concept, but it seems as though like the church/musicians are just learning this stuff, and it seems as though we're trying to catch up with them.

Food for thought imo!


Well said dwest. You have just given me a "new" idea about progressions. I'm inspired man, this sounds so cool. ;D
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline T-Block

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Re: Modes
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2009, 07:35:55 AM »
Just throwing this out there, recently I came up with a song idea in the key of Db lydian. I recorded it on tape while playing the piano and it sounded pretty good. Maybe once I get it all together and copyrighted, I may post it here for my fellow LGMers to hear.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline berbie

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Re: Modes
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2009, 08:00:41 AM »
Man I envy and appreciate the knowledge and skill that you guys have, and the unselfish willingness that you have to make that knowledge available to LGM readers. It has certainly been a benifit to me. If you can't find what you are looking for as relates to gospel music and keyboarding at this site, I then wonder if it could be found.

berbie

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Modes
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2009, 08:29:42 AM »
I considered the matter fully and determined this.  I am not ready for modes. 

berbie

Me either, bruh.  :-\
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Offline funkStrat_97

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Re: Modes
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2009, 01:29:03 PM »
Me either, bruh.  :-\

Just stick to your basic major and minor scales, and you'll be fine.  I tend to look at modes more as altered scales with major (Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian) or minor (Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian, Locrian - but who actually uses the Locrian mode) tonalites and use them as substitutes if I think it will fit the song wituout sounding like a train wreck.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Modes
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2009, 01:48:25 PM »
Just stick to your basic major and minor scales, and you'll be fine.  I tend to look at modes more as altered scales with major (Ionian, Lydian, Mixolydian) or minor (Aeolian, Dorian, Phrygian, Locrian - but who actually uses the Locrian mode) tonalites and use them as substitutes if I think it will fit the song wituout sounding like a train wreck.

Definitely my plan.  ;) :D
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