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Author Topic: Does the average church/gospel drummer(musician) understand what POCKET is?  (Read 3784 times)

MaestroDivine

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WHY WOULD YOUR FOCUS BE ON DRUMS    IF EVERYONES PLAYS GOOD IT WONT SOUND BORING ,  WEAK ARRANGEMENTS ARE BORING, NOT A DRUMMER NOT SHOW BOATING

Ditto!! Ditto! Ditto!!

I'm glad you said that. The reason a lot of guys like the drummer showboating, is because the arrangements are so weak.

Offline bigblackdrummer

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Ditto!! Ditto! Ditto!!

I'm glad you said that. The reason a lot of guys like the drummer showboating, is because the arrangements are so weak.

I agree totally BUT some drummers will showboat even if the arrangement is on fire!!!! I feel some of you guys really dont understand the true meaning of pocket!!!!
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Offline Da_Drumma

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What snares that?

Thats my renovated Tama artwood limited edition snare!!! I just added a little twist to it!! 13"X 7"

Offline bigblackdrummer

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Thats my renovated Tama artwood limited edition snare!!! I just added a little twist to it!! 13"X 7"

How and what did you do to it?
Mapex Drums, Grant Custom Basses, Carparelli Basses, Istanbul Cymbals,!

Offline hot_pocket87

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I definitely prefer playing pocket most of the time! yeah most younger drummers and peeps in the congregation will give the cats who be killin doin crazy chops during the whole service a BIG HEAD....but the older experienced musicians are definitely feelin yur pocket and appreciate when you learn to subject yourself to cuttin down the chops to when they are really needed! loose phrase! I would definitely rather be thought of as an overall good drummer by older experienced musicians than a grip of young peeps who don't know

feel me?  ??? ;D

Offline Downbeat

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What's up Guys, this is my 1st post and how interesting.  A friend of mine, who is/was connected with some guys who produced a couple of songs for Beyonce told me I was a POCKET drummer, when he came to the church and heard me play. I had never heard that before so I asked him what is a pocket drummer.  A pocket drummer is one  that holds the groove together.  A drummer who holds a tight pocket, can do all the fancy tricks, fills and rips...but the young cats will miss it everytime because they are looking for twirling sticks, etc.

He can do all the fancy stuff, but doesn't have to.  What's our purpose guys...it is to glorify GOD!  As a Praise and Worship leader, it is to help carry the people into the presence of God through song.  Save the tricks and fancy rips for church musicals, events and annual celebrations, etc.  A friend of mine was invited to a church celebration and he asked me to come play for him.  There was a lot of good drummers there and I enjoyed them, because that was the right setting for cutting loose.  But on Sunday...give God your best, but don't take the focus off of God and the worship by drawing attention to yourself by showing off.

Offline pianoboi06

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What's a pocket?   ???

 :D  :D  :D

Come on guys.  Don't front.  You know you've visited another church and saw a drummer not do any super-fancy fills and thought "This guy is boring.  ::) "  Even if his pocket was air-tight. 



you are so right!!!

Offline outstretchedarm

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I was wondering if a non-drummer (but a keyboard player and midi progammer) could get in this discussion.

I once heard Quincy Jones talking about songs being "in the pocket."  He said it was about tempo, shuffle, and timing, and he wasn't just referring to the drums.

To me, a beat is "in the pocket" when:

1) the tempo is just right.  The songwriter may have written the perfect song, but now its up to the band to play it well.  So the drummer starts playing it at 95 bpm, like he was asked to.  But then, as the band continues practicing the groove, they find that it all flows better doing it just a tiny bit faster, say 96 bpm, or even more precisely, 96.5 bpm.  It sounds weird, but getting the groove at just the right tempo can put it in "the pocket"

2) the shuffle is just right.  I'm a big fan of both jazz and hip-hop, and my favorite hip hop beats use strong shuffle.  Now, traditional jazz shuffle and that hard hip hop shuffle are about 67% shuffle (a "straight" beat is 50%).   However, its up to the rhythm section (particularly the drummer) to find the perfect shuffle for that song.  Through experimenting and practicing with the band, he might come to "feel" that a 57% shuffle is just right.  Not only that, but he "locks" that shuffle in his mind, and does all his fill-ins and cuts according to that precise shuffle: in other words, he plays disciplined.  That's a part of playing "in the pocket"

3) the timing is just right.  through experimenting, he finds what notes to play slightly early/slightly late to get a nice feel.  You all, of course would know about this more than me because you all are drummers.  But I think its important that whatever scheme of early/late playing he decides on, he plays that consistently through a song, to keep that "pocket"

4) the volume control is just right.  if the drummer decides he's gonna play quarter notes forcefully and sixteenths notes softly, almost like ghost notes, keep that throughout the song, except on parts where you're doing something special.  That's the pocket.

To summarize: when one intelligently, thoughtfully combines these ideas, and plays them with discipline, that's POCKET.   This is why drum machines and computers became so popular in music, especialy with the urban crowd, cause you tell the computer to play that sound and it faithfully plays it throughout the song.

Anyway, just my .02$

Offline Downbeat

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What's up Keys,

You are correct!  It is good to get a perspective from another part of the band..."Keys".  As Romeo one the Steve Harvey Show would say..."Good lookin' out Mr. Hightower".

Downbeat

Offline stixbajan

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all depends on the groove. some people are laid back in the pocket, others are dead on it, and some are a bit ahead, depends on the song and style you play... i believe you shouldnt fill everytime you get, but wherever there is a gap or space in between the music.  that in my opinion is called a fill.

Offline cymbalman

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good lookin out Mr. Hightower for sho....

i couldn't agree with you more Mr. Hightower, i mean its good to know and understand the aspects of the music that the keys is lookin for....being that this is what us drummers look for when we're trying to make a "band"......keys..bass..lead...possibly horns maybe...and more of what.....keys....so thanks for you input on this thread trust me it is greatly apprecieated.....moooore than you'll eeeeever knooooooooooowww...(singing it like that kirk franklin song about mama)......


all depends on the groove. some people are laid back in the pocket, others are dead on it, and some are a bit ahead, depends on the song and style you play... i believe you shouldnt fill everytime you get, but wherever there is a gap or space in between the music.  that in my opinion is called a fill.

exactly maestro good job.....i couldn't agree with you more......thanks alot Mr. Hightower.....
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Offline outstretchedarm

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 ;)

Offline jlynnb1

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Being a MM, i can tell you I'd rahter have a drummer that can hold the pocket down than a drummer who has crazy chops but comes out of every fill ahead of the beat. that's what pocket is, being able to do what you do but never stray off the tempo/groove of the song. who cares if you've got crazy chops, but that 95 bpm song is at 115 bpm by the time it's over. the music is rused, the singers can't ge the words in right, the feel of the song is destroyed. keep your chops, give me pocket all day long.

Offline fenderjazz

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Young players don't know what pocket is!!! They misunderstand that showing off and fast licks does not make you a good drummer or a drummer at all !!! I was like that 10 years ago. With time and M.D`s, older musicians and producers yelling at you, you grow out of it and learn.



but being a young drummer, it  seems like the only way that you get recognized is if you constantly killin, i don 't really know of too many drummers that are on cd's and projects that have a tight pocket... every one wants to be like thomas pridgen, chris dave, stokley doing crazy off the wall stuff>>> don't get me wrong all these dudes have a strong pocket but you very rarely see that.[.. holla back ???


Producers and music directors recognize discipline and well-rounded musicianship. The other young cats may only give the flashy drummers props but the young cats usually are not in the position to actually hire you for a good paying gig. The only reason Thomas Pridgen, Chris Dave and Stokley are on anybody's CD is because they know how to play appropriately for any song they're given. Their chops are just the icing on the cake. I try to keep by grooves and solo chops equally tight and play what ever enhances the sound of the whole band. :)
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