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Author Topic: To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!  (Read 6219 times)

DaNatiMaestro

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To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!
« on: February 03, 2006, 04:27:26 AM »
DISCLAIMER - Extreme use of number system to follow. Proceed with caution!!

There is no way to get around it.. you gotta know your scales and you gotta know the number system.. Hammondman taught it to me and it's stuck with me every since.

Part 1 Theory to Intro Part

I know that some people are turned off by chords that are posted without any theory so here is my attempt to put a method to my madness.  The Chords are the What.. the Theory is the Why.  I'm doing this for the beginner and the advance because knowing theory is a good thing!!

Format will be as such:
- Turned each chord into it's chord symbol
- Placed the root or rootless position chord (in its basic form not ecessarily how I played it but the meat to the chord)
- Some notes on how to form that chord so you can do it in any key or why it is what it is.
- Make sure you follow along with the chords from the song post.
- I'll try to use the number system as best as I can to label the rogression that is being used.

I am no musical scholar but I am book/self taught.. lol.. if anybody out there has a correction please correct me!!

INTRO
Key of Db

Progression by Numbers
2 - 3 - 4 - 2 - 5 - 1 - 3 - 6, FILLER - 2 - 3 - 4 - 2 - 5 - 1

1. Ebmin7 - Basic voicing: EbGbBbDb How it is played: EbBb/DbGbBb

Explanation:
We have a Eb minor 7th.  Eb is bass note and is in the left hand cuz there is no bass player. I've doubled up Bb (the 5 of Eb) by playing in LH (you could leave it out if you want).  I've place the arranged the LH chord so that Bb is on top that is the melody.  You have to remember to try to place the melody on top for good voice leading.

2. Fmin7 - Basic voicing: FAbCEb How it is played: FC/EbAbC

Explanation:
We have a F minor 7th.  Same thought process as 1. Since C is the melody note it is on top.

3. GbMaj7 - Basic voicing: GbBbDbF How it is played: GbBb/FBbDb,Bb,C

Explanation:
We have a Gb major 7th.  Same thought process as 1. Only this time I doubled up the Bb (the 3 of Gb) by playing it in LH with the Bass.  Looking at this now, I probably should have stayed consistent with the 1st two chords and doubled the Db (the 5 of Gb) but it okay you can double the 3 or 5. again Db is on top b/c it's the melody. Bb, C is single grace notes that are being used to carry the melody.  Hold the GbBb in the LH and just play Bb and C as the melody.

4. Absus or Ebmin7/Ab - Basic voicing: Ab/GbBbDb  How it is played: AbEb/GbBbDb,Eb

Explanation:
We have a Ab Sustained Chord. This is typically used to either resolve to the 1 (Major 7th) instead of the 5 (dominant 7th) or to replace the 2 in a 2-5-1 progression.  Here we are using it as a substitution for the 2.  There are two ways to play a sustained chord. Either with the m7 triad over the 1 or the 5 minor 7th over the 1. So you can play Ab Sustained chord like so Ab/GbBbDb (Ab in bass, Gb major triad in LH, Gb is 7 flatted of Ab) or like so Ab/EbGbBbDb (Ab in bass, Eb minor 7th in LH, Eb is 5 of Ab)  In this particular case, I'm using the Eb minor 7th over the Ab because of the eventual Eb in the melody.  Also because the Ebmin7 will sound good
because it is the 2 so really we're totally substituting the 2 b/c we're still playing it were just playing a different bass.  Again I'm doubling the 5 in my LH (Do you see a pattern in my playing?.. lol..)

5. Ab7b9 - Basic voicing: Ab/GbC/FAC  How it is played: GbC/FAC,Bb,C

Explanation:
We have a Rootless Upper Structure Chord for Ab Dominant 7th, Flatted 9.  I don't have the space to really do this chord justice on how to explain.  You can do a search on Google for Upper Structure and ALOT of information should be available on this.  I'll try to do my best to be brief but get the point across.

In the LH we have a good old tritone (GbC) for Ab.  Quick recap: Tritone - 2 note chords (major 3 and minor 7 of the root).  In this example Ab's tritone is GbC (min7,3).  You can add certain altered notes and extension
notes to the tritone to create some interesting harmonies.  In this chord, we've flatted the 9.  If you look at the Ab major scale, there is no "A".  So us playing that A in RH is what alter this chords and changes it from being a regular dominant 7 chord.  Basically, the 9 of Ab (Bb) is flatted which is (Bb)b or A.  

In come Upper Structures,  Upper Structures are major or minor triads that you can play on top (in RH) of the tritone (in LH) to create these harmonies.  It is much easier to remember to play a certain number triad than to say okay I'm about to play a flat 9 chord.  If you look at the RH, what major triad is that? a F major triad.. right! What is the F in relation to the Ab major scale? The 6.. right, again!! Do you see the upper structure to play any dominant 7th, flatted 9? Just play the 6's major triad over 1's tritone.. bingo, you're good!!

For example:  What is the upper structure chord for E7b9? 1's tritone/6's major triad.. so E/DG#/C#FG#.. or E/DAb/DbFAb..

Alright we know what it is.. but why did I play that?  Bass is Ab.. hmmm.. key of the song is Db so Ab is the 5.. the 5 will most likely resolve to the 1.. (number system.. you gotta know it!!).. if you check what the bass player is playing the next note is Db or the 1.  The 5 is typically a dominant 7th chord so I know the chord is a Ab dominant 7th but there is something more to that chord.. my ear is sensing a familiar chord.  

Thankfully the song is in Db and I'm familiar with most of the changes in Db.. I normally play AbGb/CFAC to resolve to the 1 without even thinking on the piano.. it sounds like it fits but it sounds even "fresher" without the Ab in the bass. So taking it out I now have GbC/FAC. I'm satisfied with this chord because the C is on top which happens to be the melody that I need.


6. DbMaj6/9 - Basic voicing: DbEbFAbBb How it is played: DbFBb/EbAbDb

Explanation:
We have a Db Major Chord with the 6 and 9 added.  I believe that you can use the Major 7th as well in this voicing but it didn't sound right to me.  The C (in this case) would have clashed with the Db melody on top. The voicing that I used is a open voiced using fourths.  Open voicing means that the chords are spaced out and not stacked on top of one another.  

To form this chord in any key you go from the root to one octave above it. In between these top and bottom notes, add the 3 and then add notes to the chords based off the order of the circle of fourths starting from the 3 until you reach the 1.  Quick recap: Circle of Fourths is Circle of Fifths backwards. Here is the circle of fourths  C-F-Bb-Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-B-E-A-D-G continue from C.

Example:
How would we create AbMaj6/9 open voiced?
- First find out top and bottom Ab and Ab
Ab      Ab
- Add the 3
AbC     Ab
- Add notes based off the order of circle of fourths starting from the 3 until you reach the 1
AbCFBbEbAb
- Split notes between LH and RH (there will always be 6 notes so 3 for LH and 3 for RH)
AbCF/BbEbAb

This chord is a good choice when you need to play the 1 and the melody on top at that time is the 1 like we have above.

7. F7b9b13 - Basic Voicing: FEb/ADbGb How it is played: Eb,E,FEb/ADbEbAb,Gb,F

Explanation:
We have another upper structure chord for F dominant 7 with flatted 9 and flatted 13th added.  I've gone through the explanation of what an upper structure is and how it's formed.  So I'll just tell you how this harmony is formed via upper structure.

If you look at the chord name the altered notes are listed the 9 of F (G) is flatted (Gb) and the 13 of F (D) is flatted (Db). so with the F tritone lets put these notes together F/EbA/DbGb.. if you rewrote this for piano it would be FEb/ADbGb.. what chord triad is in the RH? Gb minor in 2nd inversion! What is number is Gb of root (F)? Gb is not normally in the number sequence for F but G is.. G is the 2 or 9.. so Gb is the flatted 2 or
flatted 9 of F.  In the right hand, play the flatted 2's minor triad.  That should be all we need to create this sound in any key.

Example:
How do you form Eb7b9b13 via upper structure?
Hmm.. The tritone for Eb is GDb. The 2 of Eb is F and F flatted is E.
So the full chord would be EbDb/GBE

8. Bbsus or Ab/Bb - Voicing: BbAb/AbCEb

Explanation:
Same as 4. Different Bass/Root
(Ab Triad over Bb in the Bass could have added an F to make it Fmin7 over Bb)

9. Bb7alt - Voicing: DAb/DbGbDb,C  
(Another Rootless Upper Structure.. can you guess how it's formed?)
Hint: What is the root based off the tritone in LH?  What is the major triad in RH? Hint: add a Bb to RH chord above and remove the top Db and C.

Same as 1. EbBb/DbGbBb
Same as 2. FC/EbAbC
Same as 3. GbBb/FBbDb,Bb,C
Same as 4. AbEb/GbBbDb,Eb
Same as 5. GbC/FAC,Bb,C
Same as 6. DbFBb/EbAbDb

10. Run Two Hand Run Eb,D,Db,Bb,Ab/Eb,E,F,Ab,Bb

Explanation:
LH - Bass Run sounded good to be but you could leave it out and just double up the RH onto the LH In the RH we have a Bb Blues scale starting on Eb ending on Db (melody note in 11.)

11. Db7(#5) - Voicing: GFB/FADb,C

Short Explanation:
(Another upper structure.. can you guess how it's formed?)
playing G in Bass b/c tritone substitution G and Db gives it this sound that makes it want to resolve to the 4.


Sorry about the explanations getting shorter towards the end I was getting tired.  Well let me know what you think and if it's even worth me continuing on with the rest of the song.

Offline sjonathan02

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To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2006, 12:48:54 PM »
Yo, I want you to have more sleepless nights. Due to your explanation, I believe that I understand the following:

a. That I can play a major chord (on a flatted 6th) with a tri-tone.
b. That I can play a minor chord (on a flatted 2) with a tri-tone.

Now, if what I just wrote is true, you have unlocked the "secret" that I have been looking for for a looong time.
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

DaNatiMaestro

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You are right!
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 01:08:23 PM »
Man.. you're right.. last night was definitely a sleepless night.. I really don't sleep anymore it kinda weird but anyways..

You're right again..

Quote
a. That I can play a major chord (on a flatted 6th) with a tri-tone.


You've described an altered chord (added raised 9th and a flatted 13th to dominant 7th chord)
in C it would be
C/EBb/EbAbC
in LH - you have tritone for C
in RH - major triad chord for Ab (flatted 6th (A) of C)

Quote
b. That I can play a minor chord (on a flatted 2) with a tri-tone


You've described an dominant chord w/ added flatted 9th and flatted 13th
in C it would be
CBb/FbAbDb or CBb/EAbDb
with this chord the tritone is split between the two hands with Bb in LH and E in RH
in LH - you have root and minor 7th for C
in RH - minor triad chord for Db (flatted 2 (D) of C)


And you're right one MORE time.. these upper structure unlock the "secret" to that Tritone sound..  There are 9 upper structure voicing in total that can be played over a tritone.  So now you have two more to add to your arsenal.

This is all that the "good" players are doing.. just using that tritone in LH and placing some kind of triad on top to create various harmonies to sound out.. Kevin Bond does this ALOT and it's a staple of Jazz Piano..

Glad you found this helpful, sjonathan02!!

Offline B3Wannabe

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To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2006, 01:37:44 PM »
Yep! This is some sweet info!

Offline CESharp

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wow
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2006, 02:59:54 PM »
wait ya'll wait for me! I just saw this and now I have to print and take it home with me.

I'm tryin' to catch up with ya'll
Carla E.
Canaan Church (Urbana, Illinois)
U of I

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: wow
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2006, 06:50:12 PM »
Quote from: CESharp
wait ya'll wait for me! I just saw this and now I have to print and take it home with me.

I'm tryin' to catch up with ya'll


Girl, I will definitely slow my roll for ya, cuz like they say, "it aint' no fun 'less my homies can get some....knowledge that is"  :lol:
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: You are right!
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2006, 07:10:45 PM »
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro


There are 9 upper structure voicing in total that can be played over a tritone.  So now you have two more to add to your arsenal.

Glad you found this helpful, sjonathan02!!


My brother, these are the only two in my arsenal.

Ok, so onto my next question.....How can I figure out when and where to play these types of chords?

I may have an idea, I may even post a progression to see if I'm on the right track. Stay tuned.

CE, where ya at? Stay wit me gurl!
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline sjonathan02

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To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2006, 09:39:24 PM »
And, yes you should continue with the theory lesson, teach.  :D
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

Offline CESharp

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i'm here
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2006, 08:31:33 AM »
Okay ya'll go 'head, I will catch up.  If I have any questions I will let you know.  When I logon I am at work so therefore it will take me a minute to study stuff

Thanks for lookin' out for a sista'.
Carla E.
Canaan Church (Urbana, Illinois)
U of I

Offline CESharp

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oh yeah
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2006, 08:43:01 AM »
Question,

What is the fingering (footing) for your foot on organ pedals? Aren't you suppose to use your heel and your toes?

Can someone explain what part of your foot hits what key? Thanks
Carla E.
Canaan Church (Urbana, Illinois)
U of I

DaNatiMaestro

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Re: oh yeah
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2006, 02:59:42 PM »
Quote from: CESharp
Question,

What is the fingering (footing) for your foot on organ pedals? Aren't you suppose to use your heel and your toes?

Can someone explain what part of your foot hits what key? Thanks


Hello CESharp.. Thanks for joining us on this musical study.

The chords that I've posted for this song were written for the piano/keyboard in mind.  I would say just play the bottom note from the LH on the bass pedal but some of the chords that I wrote were "rootless" voicings meaning that the bass part is not being played.  That was done on purpose to give the tritone that was being played at that time more emphasize.

I can answer your heel toe question.. you are "supposed" you use your heel on the white keys and your toes on the black keys on the bass pedals.. so that you can have speed when play.. plus it easier than trying to hit every key with your toes..

I say supposed because I've seen them played either way heel / toe or all toes it up to you I guess whatever your personal preference is!

Hopefully that answered your questions!!

DaNatiMaestro

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Re: You are right!
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2006, 03:05:12 PM »
Quote from: sjonathan02
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro


There are 9 upper structure voicing in total that can be played over a tritone.  So now you have two more to add to your arsenal.

Glad you found this helpful, sjonathan02!!


My brother, these are the only two in my arsenal.

Ok, so onto my next question.....How can I figure out when and where to play these types of chords?

I may have an idea, I may even post a progression to see if I'm on the right track. Stay tuned.

CE, where ya at? Stay wit me gurl!


Hey sjonathan02.. I'm going to wait until I get home this evening to answer your question properly.  I have some thoughts on the placement of these altered chords using tritones..

And please by all means, go ahead and post the progression that you're thinking about and we can discuss!

I know that those may be the only two but that won't be always.. you'll keep adding more and more of these "tools" to your "toolbox" and then watch out.. you're gonna be dangerous.. it's all about adding more tools!!

DaNatiMaestro

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To Know You Lord By Tonex - Theory Behind It!
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2006, 03:06:27 PM »
Quote from: B3Wannabe
Yep! This is some sweet info!


Thank you sir!! That means alot coming from you!!   :D

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: You are right!
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2006, 03:58:38 PM »
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro
Quote from: sjonathan02
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro


There are 9 upper structure voicing in total that can be played over a tritone.  So now you have two more to add to your arsenal.

Glad you found this helpful, sjonathan02!!


My brother, these are the only two in my arsenal.

Ok, so onto my next question.....How can I figure out when and where to play these types of chords?

I may have an idea, I may even post a progression to see if I'm on the right track. Stay tuned.

CE, where ya at? Stay wit me gurl!


Hey sjonathan02.. I'm going to wait until I get home this evening to answer your question properly.  I have some thoughts on the placement of these altered chords using tritones..

And please by all means, go ahead and post the progression that you're thinking about and we can discuss!

I know that those may be the only two but that won't be always.. you'll keep adding more and more of these "tools" to your "toolbox" and then watch out.. you're gonna be dangerous.. it's all about adding more tools!!


Then, we'll talk tonight, before or after '24'!
Despite our communication technology, no invention is as effective as the sound of the human voice.

DaNatiMaestro

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Re: You are right!
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2006, 09:41:20 PM »
Quote from: sjonathan02
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro
Quote from: sjonathan02
Quote from: DaNatiMaestro


There are 9 upper structure voicing in total that can be played over a tritone.  So now you have two more to add to your arsenal.

Glad you found this helpful, sjonathan02!!


My brother, these are the only two in my arsenal.

Ok, so onto my next question.....How can I figure out when and where to play these types of chords?

I may have an idea, I may even post a progression to see if I'm on the right track. Stay tuned.

CE, where ya at? Stay wit me gurl!


Hey sjonathan02.. I'm going to wait until I get home this evening to answer your question properly.  I have some thoughts on the placement of these altered chords using tritones..

And please by all means, go ahead and post the progression that you're thinking about and we can discuss!

I know that those may be the only two but that won't be always.. you'll keep adding more and more of these "tools" to your "toolbox" and then watch out.. you're gonna be dangerous.. it's all about adding more tools!!


Then, we'll talk tonight, before or after '24'!


Sorry man.. I ain't had time to post more on this stuff.  I will though as soon as I can!
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