Questions about starvation in West Africa, and stuff...

[LaylaMonroe]

It's all scams and propaganda to make Africa look bad (remember Kony). I'm not as learned on the subject as I want to be, so I can't fully answer all of your questions, but if you ask people who have actually been to Africa, they will tell you that it's not like what they show on these infomercials. Most of Africa is industrialized and the people are not all starving. As for why it's like that, it's because of colonialism. I don't think those people were starving and in a civil war before the Europeans came.

I don't watch the ads, as I don't really watch TV, but I would just turn it off. Whatever you donate to them will not actually help much if at all. There are also starving children in Europe, why don't they put them on TV?

I don't think it's "ALL" scams and propaganda, U13. I mean... you can't pretend that there are 1.5 million starving children... that number has to be substantiated or it would've been exposed a long time ago.

Also, while I'll agree that a lot of Africa IS industrialized, West Africa does have a lot of poverty. My godmother's ex-husband is from Senegal and she took many trips there with him. She never reported seeing the type of poverty we see on the commercials, but she did see poverty there and learned a lot about poverty elsewhere. Severe poverty. I remember her telling me that what we think is poverty here is livable there. I guess what I'm saying is that just because the people who have been there haven't seen what we see on the commercials doesn't mean it doesn't really look like that in certain places.

Idk. I haven't been.

[LaylaMonroe]

For what it's worth...

The 20st Poorest Countries in the World. You'll notice most are in Africa.

Also fwiw, the GDP in the poorest country (Congo) is $348, the GDP in the US is $48,386. Just for a little perspective.

[Fenix]

It's all scams and propaganda to make Africa look bad (remember Kony).

Actually its not.

Most of Africa is industrialized and the people are not all starving. As for why it's like that, it's because of colonialism. 

No man. Outside of the major cities like the capital cities, West African countries are made up of poor hovels. About 70% of people live on less than $2 a day. I am not kidding. I have seen this first-hand. The total amount of electricity generated by the whole of Nigeria, a country of 150 million people is about 2500MW, which is less than half of the electricity used by Dulles airport.

I am usually the first to shy away from showing a poor image of Africa, but the reality is that Africa and Africans are desperately poor. Desperately! It is even worse in nations that are dominated by Islamic governance.

[LaylaMonroe]

Actually its not.


No man. Outside of the major cities like the capital cities, West African countries are made up of poor hovels. About 70% of people live on less than $2 a day. I am not kidding. I have seen this first-hand. The total amount of electricity generated by the whole of Nigeria, a country of 150 million people is about 2500MW, which is less than half of the electricity used by Dulles airport.

I am usually the first to shy away from showing a poor image of Africa, but the reality is that Africa and Africans are desperately poor. Desperately! It is even worse in nations that are dominated by Islamic governance.

I was hoping you'd chime in.

WOW.

[THE WOLFMAN]

5. How in the world did it get that bad over there????

my unlearned opinion on it is that in the history of the conquest of various nations and countries, while everyone at the receiving end of conquest at some point, it seems like africa was the only one that was really 'divvied up' with an agreement to do so by 7 nations. Africa was just a resource of goods and land. I would imagine its kinda hard to bounce back from that. add that to whatever civil war that eventually occurs, and you got a bad scenario.

[under13]

Yeah, of course many places are like that, all I'm saying is that they only tell part of the story.  They never tell you about the colonialism that still goes on and how the Europeans and Asians take all the resources out of Africa.

@ Fenix, how did it get like that?

[Docdb04]

I think the bigger issue is how did it get this way?  What are the elements and factors that are keeping starvation continuous?  Even after all these years, all the ads and contributions.  Think about it this way.  For nearly 20 years or more, there have been ads (late night or Sunday) about sending contribution to feed the starving kids in Africa.  If after 20 years you still need contributions, how large is the problem?  If 100k people send a $5 contribution every month that grosses out to $6mil in one year.  If that happens over a span of 10 years, you've just grossed $60mil.  Which leads to the question, can the problems be fixed with contributions?  If you aren't receiving enough contributions, how are you able to maintain televised ads, in another country (if the background setting is real) continually?  How is all of this advertisment funded on a yearly basis?  Is this a government issue or an economic issue?  I believe the issue goes beyond what they are portraying on t.v. 

[under13]

I think the bigger issue is how did it get this way?  What are the elements and factors that are keeping starvation continuous?  Even after all these years, all the ads and contributions.  Think about it this way.  For nearly 20 years or more, there have been ads (late night or Sunday) about sending contribution to feed the starving kids in Africa.  If after 20 years you still need contributions, how large is the problem?  If 100k people send a $5 contribution every month that grosses out to $6mil in one year.  If that happens over a span of 10 years, you've just grossed $60mil.  Which leads to the question, can the problems be fixed with contributions?  If you aren't receiving enough contributions, how are you able to maintain televised ads, in another country (if the background setting is real) continually?  How is all of this advertisment funded on a yearly basis?  Is this a government issue or an economic issue?  I believe the issue goes beyond what they are portraying on t.v. 

Exactly.

You can not eradicate poverty by giving charity. You have to teach people how to be industrious and to support themselves.

[Fenix]

@ Fenix, how did it get like that?

Many factors. But it boils down to:

Corruption.

The fact is that many W.African countries have been ruled by military governments who successively looted the countries they ruled. They were not interested in developing the infrastructure. Education, manufacturing and so on were destroyed. Corruption is an institution in Nigeria. So much money has been stolen it is ridiculous.

About 5 years back $16 billion was spent by the Nigerian government to solve the electricity problem. It cannot be accounted for up till today. Absolutely NOTHING was done and $16 billion is missing.

[LaylaMonroe]

Are y'all forgetting the reproduction that takes place in those places????

[sjonathan02]

Actually its not.


No man. Outside of the major cities like the capital cities, West African countries are made up of poor hovels. About 70% of people live on less than $2 a day. I am not kidding. I have seen this first-hand. The total amount of electricity generated by the whole of Nigeria, a country of 150 million people is about 2500MW, which is less than half of the electricity used by Dulles airport.

I am usually the first to shy away from showing a poor image of Africa, but the reality is that Africa and Africans are desperately poor. Desperately! It is even worse in nations that are dominated by Islamic governance.

I appreciate this info, sir.

[docjohn]

It's interesting that the islamic countries have the most poverty.Since they are so work based;should seem a natural thing for them to feed folks.If the people are given strength;you would think it would be a good thing.

On some level,I think these poor folks are victimized by being made "poster children".Like N Korea and Iran-bucks for bombs and starve the folks.

There was(and maybe still ??) a group that advertised on CHRISTian networks to help resettle jews from around the world to Israel.Funny thing,I saw a report on how anti JESUS they were and how little they did for folks.I think there" asking price" was about $500/yr.

The "poor verse" LL gave isn't an excuse but more between a statement of fact and a prophecy.

[Fenix]

docjohn, it is not surprising to me that Islamic led countries are poor relative to other countries. If you knew Islam well enough, and you had been around those who grew up as non-Western muslims, you would see that they have a very fatalistic view of life. Whatever situation you are born in, it is the will of allah. Islam is not a religion that encourages freedom of thinking. I believe this is why Christian nations are the most advanced and prosperous in the world.

[LaylaMonroe]

The "poor verse" LL gave isn't an excuse but more between a statement of fact and a prophecy.

I agree that it's not an excuse. I was saying that some people use it as an excuse. (And to be clear, I wasn't talking about LL or Jonathan or anyone. My comment was a general one. I've been hearing that scripture for years, just like I'm sure you all have). I just don't believe it absolves us of our duty to care for the poor, whether they are neighbors, church members, or on another continent.

Just making my point a little clearer.

[Docdb04]

I agree that it's not an excuse. I was saying that some people use it as an excuse. (And to be clear, I wasn't talking about LL or Jonathan or anyone. My comment was a general one. I've been hearing that scripture for years, just like I'm sure you all have). I just don't believe it absolves us of our duty to care for the poor, whether they are neighbors, church members, or on another continent.

Just making my point a little clearer.

I don't think the scripture meant we will always have poor people.  However, I can see how one can perceive such.  I think it was an analogy Christ used because Peter bought up the reason of wasting the precious ointment.  It was a matter of which would have come first.  In this case, Chirst sacrifice would come before poor people would overcome their situation.       

[Fenix]

I don't think the scripture meant we will always have poor people.  However, I can see how one can perceive such.  I think it was an analogy Christ used because Peter bought up the reason of wasting the precious ointment.  It was a matter of which would have come first.  In this case, Chirst sacrifice would come before poor people would overcome their situation.       

This is the kind of issue that causes division in the church.

The reason I say so is that I believe Jesus did mean that we will LITERALLY always have poor people with us insofar as the world is what it is. I don't see why it has to be a metaphor or an analogy.

What could it be an analogy of? If we say that Jesus meant that we should place priorities in the proper place, then yes, I will agree that that is what PART of that scripture meant. However that means we are conveniently ignoring the first part that says that we will always have the poor with us. If people challenge us on the first part of that scripture, we have to defend it.

We will always have poor people (people who do not have the means to generate meaningful income to satisfy their basic needs) because there is so much imperfection in man. The only world where poor people would not exist is one in which the rules of God are adhered to by all men.

Some poor people are poor because other people are too selfish to share what they have. I could go on an on.

[Docdb04]

This is the kind of issue that causes division in the church.

The reason I say so is that I believe Jesus did mean that we will LITERALLY always have poor people with us insofar as the world is what it is. I don't see why it has to be a metaphor or an analogy.

What could it be an analogy of? If we say that Jesus meant that we should place priorities in the proper place, then yes, I will agree that that is what PART of that scripture meant. However that means we are conveniently ignoring the first part that says that we will always have the poor with us. If people challenge us on the first part of that scripture, we have to defend it.

We will always have poor people (people who do not have the means to generate meaningful income to satisfy their basic needs) because there is so much imperfection in man. The only world where poor people would not exist is one in which the rules of God are adhered to by all men.

Some poor people are poor because other people are too selfish to share what they have. I could go on an on.

We are pretty much in agreement.  Your second paragraph is my point.  It was about priorities or where to place priorities at this moment.  You can relate that we would always have poor people based on this scripture, but I don't think it was target point of the conversation taking place at that time.  He followed up with the point of using it for his burial.  Meaning, what was 
about to take place (going to the cross) was the focus of the conversation.     

[Fenix]

You are absolutely right. That is not the point of the piece of scripture.

[phbrown]

1. Do you think we (in general) are desensitized to these types of ads?
Yes
2. How do you feel/react when you see these ads?
InDifferent
3. Have you ever contributed to any of these organizations who send aid to starving children?
No
4. Do you think there's any solution at all to this problem? I mean, this is a pretty old problem...
to world hunger ... no
5. How in the world did it get that bad over there????
I don't know

[docjohn]

Agree with Fen!  Ph-I think Fen has shed some light on the cultural aspects of such :fatalism vs. lets do something about this.

Another point;is LORD uses poverty to draw the lost and employ the saints.If somebody lacks food and a CHRISTian gives him a sandwich,opens a door.Sort of a replay of the loaves and fishes parable.

Some of our friends have a mission to Haiti that our former church supported.One day,they were sharing how Haiti was continually hammered yet Dominican Republic(literally just over the mountains) many times was spared.Their take on it was all the witchcraft done in Haiti versus some degree of CHRISTianity in DR. So,maybe LORD's judgement on Haiti-trying to draw their attention?

Same as Africa;a LOT of blame on folks who colonize(d) the continent.But,those europeans brought a bigger DIAMOND-CHRIST to a multitude of folks steeped for eons in tribal witchcraft.No matter how many zeros after the $$$$$$ in values taken out of those countries,JESUS being brought in is of inestimable value.Bringing salvation probably wasn't job number 1 ;but LORD used it anyway.

In this context,it shows how we look past what's really import; $$$$ or CHRIST.