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Author Topic: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?  (Read 2240 times)

Offline Cmajor13

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Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« on: June 15, 2011, 11:03:26 AM »
I think it is good to learn your theory and vocal exercises and get a one on one private teacher, but at the end of the day how much of that stuff are you going to use in church? Besides your theory and technics. To me if you want to learn gospel then you might be wasting your time learning a Mozart pieace while you can be learning a Kirk Franklin song. Alot of church musicians think that if they go to school that it will have them beasting when they come out when I think its all about how much you practice and your relationship with God that will have you beasting. Because alot of the gospel musicians we listen to today are self taught and have studied some theory. What do you all think about this topic?

Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 11:11:23 AM »
I support it...I did.  It did not take away from the fact that God also taught what school could not teach, but its great to also lean on classical training as a foundation to further enhance what God has given.  :)

Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 11:56:02 AM »
Oh...one more point...

It DOES help with my technique so I don't view it as a waste of time.  It makes an artist/musician VERY versatile and able to adapt to many styles.

Offline betnich

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 12:11:43 PM »
Classical training can help with technique and sightreading - mastering that Mozart piece will help you do runs on the Kirk Franklin song.

But it won't help you learn improvisation and soloing - you have to get with Jazz and/or jamming w/other musicians to learn that...

Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 12:14:17 PM »
Classical training can help with technique and sightreading - mastering that Mozart piece will help you do runs on the Kirk Franklin song.

But it won't help you learn improvisation and soloing - you have to get with Jazz and/or jamming w/other musicians to learn that...

I would have to take your word, my comments were in relation to vocal music performance. :)

Offline betnich

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 12:46:30 PM »
I would have to take your word, my comments were in relation to vocal music performance. :)

A good vocal coach can help with taking care of your voice, and general technique. I said GOOD - it may take some trial and error to find one you are comfortable with.

Unfortunately Gospel/Pop and Classical 'bel canto' voice technique are different. You may want to consider that in your choice of teacher - or get with a Gospel singer or soloist who does coaching...

Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 12:56:55 PM »
A good vocal coach can help with taking care of your voice, and general technique. I said GOOD - it may take some trial and error to find one you are comfortable with.

Unfortunately Gospel/Pop and Classical 'bel canto' voice technique are different. You may want to consider that in your choice of teacher - or get with a Gospel singer or soloist who does coaching...

Yes, I agree...I've had the best :)

Offline Cmajor13

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2011, 02:03:21 PM »
I agree with u all,  jazz do help alot with improv, but where im from there are not many jazz piano teachers. I think that if you are starting to learn gospel music you should not start out with classical because gospel break alot of those rules. I would suggest learn a few gospel song first because in most churches you are going to use your ear not sheet music. So what do you think about Mike Bereal, Jason White, Aaron Lindsey alot of these guys are self taught. It seems like they get more respect than someone that is classical train such as John P. Kee Richard Smallwood. Why is that?

Tiptip357

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2011, 04:13:22 PM »
I've been classically trained since I was 6. I'm not bashing those who learned by ear because a good, trained ear is important to have...but so is having a solid foundation of piano theory and classical training. I'm not quite sure what you mean by gospel music breaking all the rules of classical training.  Believe it or not, I utilize all skills that I have acquired from classical training, when it comes to playing gospel music. 

Oh, there's also sheet music available for gospel songs as well.  :)

Having that foundation of theory has also helped me with improv.  In jazz, you play in a certain key...songs are made up of certain progressions. In a band you might have a chord chart placed in front of you. Knowing the chord structure used in the accompaniment of the band has made it much easier for me to find which chords or notes in what scales, in that key, I can use to improv. Even when I had a jazz piano teacher in Seattle, he said that teaching me is much easier because of my classical training.

Again, playing by ear is great, but you shouldn't limit yourself. All is needed to become a great, well-rounded musician and if it's going to take you to that next level in your playing, GO FOR IT!  :) :) :)

Offline T-Block

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2011, 04:35:37 PM »
CO-SIGN everything Tip said.

It seems like a waste of time mainly because it's a different genre. If that's all you're focused on then you're missing the whole point of going to school for music. Sure the genre is different, but the techniques and music information is tranferable to any genre. A 1-4-5 in classical is the same as a 1-4-5 in gospel, with different chords. Learning to spot the 1-4-5 no matter what piece you learn is what music school will do for you.

You have classical composers who "broke rules" just as you claim gospel does. Heck, as soon as they made a new rule, they did everything in their power to break it. The whole point of rules is to give you a foundation to learn. What you do with those rules makes you unique from anyone else.

I've grown so much by majoring in Music Education. My attention to the melody in a song has drastically increased thanks to Chopin pieces. Having a driving bass line like Beethoven's pieces has given me even more respect for the bass. Being lyrical and telling a story with music like in Debussy and Schumann's pieces have helped me to think more creatively.

You can get their w/out formal schooling, but the road is long and hard. Why not make it easy on yourself and learn from the experts? I'd even be willing to bet that gospel greats like Mike Bereal and Aaron Lindsey have studied this stuff and would probably encourage you to take advantage of these opportunites.
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2011, 05:45:22 PM »
CO-SIGN everything Tip said.

It seems like a waste of time mainly because it's a different genre. If that's all you're focused on then you're missing the whole point of going to school for music. Sure the genre is different, but the techniques and music information is tranferable to any genre. A 1-4-5 in classical is the same as a 1-4-5 in gospel, with different chords. Learning to spot the 1-4-5 no matter what piece you learn is what music school will do for you.

You have classical composers who "broke rules" just as you claim gospel does. Heck, as soon as they made a new rule, they did everything in their power to break it. The whole point of rules is to give you a foundation to learn. What you do with those rules makes you unique from anyone else.

I've grown so much by majoring in Music Education. My attention to the melody in a song has drastically increased thanks to Chopin pieces. Having a driving bass line like Beethoven's pieces has given me even more respect for the bass. Being lyrical and telling a story with music like in Debussy and Schumann's pieces have helped me to think more creatively.

You can get their w/out formal schooling, but the road is long and hard. Why not make it easy on yourself and learn from the experts? I'd even be willing to bet that gospel greats like Mike Bereal and Aaron Lindsey have studied this stuff and would probably encourage you to take advantage of these opportunites.

I AGREE!!!!  Can't add anything but an Amen.

Offline floaded27

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2011, 09:03:12 PM »
the big thing is what do folks consider self taught? When someone says they were self taught, why do people act as if they just sat in front of the instrument isolated and figured out EVERYTHING with no assistance whatsoever? These folks learned from other people as well, probably a LOT more in the earlier stages than maybe say now, but they did learn from others. Whether it be from books, videos, forums like this, youtube, watching others play, listening to music, etc. they learned from others. It was just a solo effort in getting this information gathered together and utilizing it.

I bet any of them would say, if you had the opportunity to have a teacher or go to school, to take that opportunity. Knowing how things were for them and sometimes wishing they had those resources or someone in the know to ask at ANY time ANY question, they would say jump on that. Some of them even do teaching themselves. Why do you think they post videos and be part of workshops and stuff. Otherwise anyone that asks them something they would say "get away from me and go figure it out on your own". None would try to give tips or correct bad habits but rather say "he'll figure out in a few years that he's doing it wrong or that theres a better way". Take note that many were self taught as an only option, not because they shunned any other way to learn (school or personal teacher) or thought it was pointless or stupid. Most had no options.

T-Block and Tip said it. Having that proficiency over your instrument, and a level of mastery over music in general will help you play anything. If you can do some of that classical stuff, which takes crazy skill, you telling me u cant do a gospel shout run??? If anything, now you have even MORE stuff to throw in there, and because its not the normal gospel stuff that everybody else do, its out of the box and a head-turner. What you think these other guys do? They study other genres of music to open their musical palate. For many, going to school for music does that from day 1.

My first music teacher had a jazz background. My second bass teacher was all R&B. Third teacher all funk. Way different styles, different tips and suggestions on how to play, different materials of music to listen to and learn, different emphasis on certain techniques and patterns. First teacher focused on theory, could read sheet music had me playing in concerts from chord charts and practicing off sheet music. Third teacher has no theory but good ear so he works my ear to learn songs. Second teacher was a balance of both. Both bass teachers played with my other music teacher back in the day. NONE of them taught me gospel songs, but yet I play in church every sunday.

Also, remember that when you become a John P Kee or a Richard Smallwood (the performer/artist) your focus isnt really the same anymore as someone who is only known as a musician (and only by other musicians). Its hard to put that level into the craft (and exploring new dimensions of it) while doing all the other stuff. Same deal with Kirk Franklin and Fred Hammond. But who's to say that the classical training isnt what helped them become those household names in the first place.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline T-Block

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2011, 09:34:04 PM »
Having that proficiency over your instrument, and a level of mastery over music in general will help you play anything. If you can do some of that classical stuff, which takes crazy skill, you telling me u cant do a gospel shout run??? If anything, now you have even MORE stuff to throw in there, and because its not the normal gospel stuff that everybody else do, its out of the box and a head-turner. What you think these other guys do? They study other genres of music to open their musical palate. For many, going to school for music does that from day 1.

Ooo weee, u is preaching man. Everything u said was good, but this stood out to me.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

Offline Cmajor13

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2011, 10:59:37 PM »
You all got some good points. I did not look at it like that I just felt that maybe I was wasting my time because instead of working on my Gospel chops all day I would be working on my classical chops and sometime I would not have time to work on my gospel chops. It looks like Im going to have to write out a practice schedule so I don't neglect my Gospel chops because thats what I enjoying playing the most......T-Block do you know any good jazz piano teacher in Polk County?

Offline floaded27

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2011, 10:03:46 AM »
gospel chops? whats that? i say u got chops that u use in gospel music, that u can adjust and use anywhere else too.


reading this again, who has the urge to drop that Beethoven intro line (dum dum dum duuum) right in the middle of a shout break. it sounds hot in my head right now and so out of the box. and thats stuff u CANT do when musicians are stuck in the "gospel box"..

btw, somebody PLEASE do that and record it. I'd love to hear it!
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline T-Block

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #15 on: June 16, 2011, 12:06:18 PM »
T-Block do you know any good jazz piano teacher in Polk County?

I sure don't man. If I hear of somebody, I will send u the info.


gospel chops? whats that? i say u got chops that u use in gospel music, that u can adjust and use anywhere else too.


reading this again, who has the urge to drop that Beethoven intro line (dum dum dum duuum) right in the middle of a shout break. it sounds hot in my head right now and so out of the box. and thats stuff u CANT do when musicians are stuck in the "gospel box"..

btw, somebody PLEASE do that and record it. I'd love to hear it!

True, chops are what you make of them. I've used tons of classical "chops" in church. And I didn't have to gospelfy them either. I get what you're trying to say Cmajor, really I do. We just want to help change ur mindset a little and see that the sky's the limit when it comes to music. Don't rely on just what u heard growing up, inform yourself and become the best musician you can.

And is that a challenge sir? Tempted to accept, lol.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
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Offline floaded27

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #16 on: June 16, 2011, 02:13:29 PM »
And is that a challenge sir? Tempted to accept, lol.

More like an experiment......or an experimental challenge........or a challenging experiment.......or a.......lol

I'd try it myself but i dont know how to even play shout music on keys. I always play on bass. And since at my church thats a rare occasion anyway, its not worth me dedicating my practice time to at this point since its limited as keys is my secondary instrument. So I could probably learn the Beethoven part (might just do that anyway), i wouldnt have the normal shout stuff to surround it.
For my God... let "Golden Axe" prevail.

Offline T-Block

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Re: Should A Gospel Musician Go To School For Music?
« Reply #17 on: June 16, 2011, 05:38:54 PM »
I'll give it a try man. As soon as u started talking about it, I got a couple of ideas. Once I practice, I will try to record and see what u think.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!
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