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Author Topic: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?  (Read 2689 times)

Offline theexclusive

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Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« on: February 03, 2007, 09:55:52 PM »
I've been on LGM for about a year or two,and I've been loving it.  However, this is my first post!!

There is only a minority of musicians that are actually willing to show others how to play in my area (thank Jesus for LGM, this has been a blessing on learning to play).  I've heard every excuse imaginable, the classic is "I'm still learning myself."  And that's coming from some of the best players in the area.  As a new piano/keyboard player, it's hard to actually get the help needed to play for my church, if it wasn't for LGM, I wouldn't be able to do the little bit that I do.

Any opinions as to why musicians are not teaching?

Offline PianoWizard

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2007, 06:31:05 AM »
These musicians I'm sure are in the minority but seem to be the majority..... :).

PianoWiz...

Offline jlewis

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2007, 09:11:23 PM »
I've been on LGM for about a year or two,and I've been loving it.  However, this is my first post!!

There is only a minority of musicians that are actually willing to show others how to play in my area (thank Jesus for LGM, this has been a blessing on learning to play).  I've heard every excuse imaginable, the classic is "I'm still learning myself."  And that's coming from some of the best players in the area.  As a new piano/keyboard player, it's hard to actually get the help needed to play for my church, if it wasn't for LGM, I wouldn't be able to do the little bit that I do.

Any opinions as to why musicians are not teaching?

Well, giving them the benefit of the doubt, sometimes musicians  don't know "how " they play what they play.  They don't know theory which makes it difficult to explain what they are doing. They don't know naming conventions, so its difficult to name the chord or progression that they are using.  Imagine Barry Sanderstrying to explain how he broke 5 tackles and turned a broken play into a touchdowm run.

Sometimes folks are so naturally gifted that they can (without thinking)  translate what they hear into notes on a keyboard.  They don't have a process, it just comes out. By the way I'm not one of those people. Everything that I do  takes practice, patience, more practice, and a lot of favor from God

Other folks are just plain selfish, and its a power trip to have folks "request" help from them and then they play you off to the left.

But the real key issue is that no matter what anyone teaches you, it will take time and sacrifice to be able to play well.  It one thing to know a progression is a 7 6 2 5 1.  Its something completely different to be able to play it fluidly. 

There are so many books or tapes or DVD's that a person can buy these days, untill if you really have a desire to learn, the only thing stopping  a person is themselves.

Keep coming to LGM, and keep practicing and playing. After a while, people will be asking you for help.

Jlewis

Offline JoashStilltheman

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2007, 09:52:13 PM »
I've been on LGM for about a year or two,and I've been loving it.  However, this is my first post!!

There is only a minority of musicians that are actually willing to show others how to play in my area (thank Jesus for LGM, this has been a blessing on learning to play).  I've heard every excuse imaginable, the classic is "I'm still learning myself."  And that's coming from some of the best players in the area.  As a new piano/keyboard player, it's hard to actually get the help needed to play for my church, if it wasn't for LGM, I wouldn't be able to do the little bit that I do.

Any opinions as to why musicians are not teaching?

The main reason I think is because the people that want to learn are not serious enough. So the musician doesn't feel like wasting his time. Also it could be a matter of pride because the musician doesn't want to have a challenger or wants to be the sole player.
Joash....still the man

kadman92

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2007, 10:06:33 PM »
I was going to say what jlewis said...

Teaching is a ministry or tallent all on it's own.  I'm just now becoming able to teach in regards to PC's and the CAD software I have used so many years.

Teaching takes Patience, Wisdom, Humility, Good Communication Skills, and above all "People Skills"

You may be the best in the world at what you do, but if you don't know how to talk to folk you will never be able to empart your gift

Offline 2tight

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2007, 10:27:14 PM »
Well, giving them the benefit of the doubt, sometimes musicians  don't know "how " they play what they play.  They don't know theory which makes it difficult to explain what they are doing. They don't know naming conventions, so its difficult to name the chord or progression that they are using.  Imagine Barry Sanderstrying to explain how he broke 5 tackles and turned a broken play into a touchdowm run.

Sometimes folks are so naturally gifted that they can (without thinking)  translate what they hear into notes on a keyboard.  They don't have a process, it just comes out. By the way I'm not one of those people. Everything that I do  takes practice, patience, more practice, and a lot of favor from God

Other folks are just plain selfish, and its a power trip to have folks "request" help from them and then they play you off to the left.

But the real key issue is that no matter what anyone teaches you, it will take time and sacrifice to be able to play well.  It one thing to know a progression is a 7 6 2 5 1.  Its something completely different to be able to play it fluidly. 

There are so many books or tapes or DVD's that a person can buy these days, untill if you really have a desire to learn, the only thing stopping  a person is themselves.

Keep coming to LGM, and keep practicing and playing. After a while, people will be asking you for help.

Jlewis
        I agree with u.some people are selfish.We need to quit acting like that.
Shannon moore

Offline T-Block

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 08:16:36 AM »

Teaching is a ministry or tallent all on it's own.

Teaching takes Patience, Wisdom, Humility, Good Communication Skills, and above all "People Skills"

You may be the best in the world at what you do, but if you don't know how to talk to folk you will never be able to empart your gift

I agree with all of that.  You need a whole lot of patience to teach.

There are also those selfish people who don't want anyone to be better than them or don't care about anyone but themselves.
Real musicians play in every key!!!
Music Theory, da numbers work!

TheVeteran

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2007, 10:15:53 AM »
There are so many books or tapes or DVD's that a person can buy these days, untill if you really have a desire to learn, the only thing stopping  a person is themselves.

EXACTLY.
Gospel Keys 202 is the first video that REALLY gave me a basic understanding of how music is played.

There are so many videos, from Jamal Hartwells 2 DVD's

PJ Morgan's DVD

Cassandra Oneal's DVD

John Peters' DVD

That alone is enough content to keep you learning for a long time.  And if you take AAAALLLLLLLLLL the hours of chords and licks and tricks in those DVDs and transpose them into every key, It would literally take over a year (maybe two) of insane practice just to get that stuff down perfectly in every key.

Just make sure that when you get a DVD you don't just look through it and put it down, but you take everything and learn it in every key.

Offline blessedhands80

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2007, 10:18:40 AM »
Well, giving them the benefit of the doubt, sometimes musicians  don't know "how " they play what they play.  They don't know theory which makes it difficult to explain what they are doing. They don't know naming conventions, so its difficult to name the chord or progression that they are using.  Imagine Barry Sanderstrying to explain how he broke 5 tackles and turned a broken play into a touchdowm run.

Sometimes folks are so naturally gifted that they can (without thinking)  translate what they hear into notes on a keyboard.  They don't have a process, it just comes out. By the way I'm not one of those people. Everything that I do  takes practice, patience, more practice, and a lot of favor from God

Other folks are just plain selfish, and its a power trip to have folks "request" help from them and then they play you off to the left.

But the real key issue is that no matter what anyone teaches you, it will take time and sacrifice to be able to play well.  It one thing to know a progression is a 7 6 2 5 1.  Its something completely different to be able to play it fluidly. 

There are so many books or tapes or DVD's that a person can buy these days, untill if you really have a desire to learn, the only thing stopping  a person is themselves.

Keep coming to LGM, and keep practicing and playing. After a while, people will be asking you for help.

Jlewis
I agree. Speaking for myself I don't know much about theory. I just play what I've learned so far. Mostly I do fill-ins or while the lead keyboardist hold down the foundation with the bass/piano split. That works well. Since we both are really not advanced basically beginners, we are starting to work on sounding like the music to the songs the choir and P&W team be singing such as "Victory" with the horns and all. Its hard to that with two keyboardist and a drummer but we are gonna get it.
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Offline blessedhands80

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2007, 10:21:55 AM »
EXACTLY.
Gospel Keys 202 is the first video that REALLY gave me a basic understanding of how music is played.

There are so many videos, from Jamal Hartwells 2 DVD's

PJ Morgan's DVD

Cassandra Oneal's DVD

John Peters' DVD

That alone is enough content to keep you learning for a long time.  And if you take AAAALLLLLLLLLL the hours of chords and licks and tricks in those DVDs and transpose them into every key, It would literally take over a year (maybe two) of insane practice just to get that stuff down perfectly in every key.

Just make sure that when you get a DVD you don't just look through it and put it down, but you take everything and learn it in every key.
I think Jermaine Griggs from Hear and Play is a good source also...
My moms space...still under construction...stay tuned...
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TheVeteran

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2007, 10:49:46 AM »
I think Jermaine Griggs from Hear and Play is a good source also...

Noted:

EXACTLY.
Gospel Keys 202 is the first video that REALLY gave me a basic understanding of how music is played.

Keys410

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2007, 11:44:00 AM »
Man Jamal Hartwell DVD's are crazy....I'm about to get that midi shed with him and Byron Chambers...Alll I can say is NAAASSSTTTTYYYY!!!!!!

Offline theexclusive

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2007, 06:04:22 PM »
Thanks for the insight, everyone brought up things that I haven't realized before.  I will look at the situation much better now.

Offline larrimo

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2007, 07:26:28 PM »
  It one thing to know a progression is a 7 6 2 5 1. 

Jlewis

Whats that? :D :D

I'm a newb myself... Been playing since I was about 13, but just basic stuff.  Never even touched the black keys.  (no, I'm not racist :D)

But I just got rather serious about it over the last six months or so.  I'm looking at boards now, (piano centered) and checking out LGM frequently.  I must admit that Ferrente has been a guiding light for some of the songs that I just couldn't figure out.  (hats off).  I think what we need to do, is give some love to the people who DO help out a lot around here...

Offline gospb3

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #14 on: February 07, 2007, 06:19:26 PM »
Exclusive:
   I feel because there are more church's offering top dollar for musicians than there are
top notch musician's especially those of us who can direct the choir , lead praise and
worship all while ministering to the congregation in songs and music . So many feel like
a supervisor in a secular work enviornment, if they teach what they know you will one
day fill there position. I myself feel because of how I was taught to play that it's my
duty to encourage others.  Maybe my next protige will win the grammy and just
maybe they'll thank God and Gospb3.
gospb3

Offline diverse379

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2007, 04:57:20 AM »
there are several reasons from the obvious to the not so obvious
are some musicians just really not comfortable giving away what they worked so hard to develop

yes of course this is still a competive industry and giving away what makes you unique seems to some to be self destructive to their careers  of course this is not true the more you give the more you are given

also you will be suiprised how insecure players who cant really explain what they do
not being able to read or know any theory whatsoever is an embarassment to a player who is playing on a big level I knew a great musician i wont mention his name but he was big for real the MD for 11 years of one of ameircas biggest gospel artists whose records have appeared on every Wow gospel album

anyway this guy would not teach anything he taught me stuff about keyboard patches and how to tailor your sound which was very valuable information
but as far as teaching  never and we were cool
i remember one day i asked him for the chords to you are the living word and he blew me off

but he was a musician who although on top of his game was beginning to see other younger players playing on his level or even beyond in some respects there was a young musician there at the church who worked with him who went on to play for one of the biggest artists in the business today
and this young man was well learned had a degree in music read impecabbly well and knew theory

this second musician taught me but at the same time was closed with some of what he taught
being careful to only teach me things that would keep me dependent
but he also taught me  agreat foundational approach which has served me well over the years


I have also studied with some great organists who have taught me well for money of course

but as far as walking up and asking someone to give you knowledge you will probablly get a lot of mixed type answers

the relation ship between a teacher and student is a very special relationship
and is not to be taken lightly it requires trust and honor on the part of teacher and student

so dont be so hard on those who blow you off some are insecure some are selfish
some ar scared some are embarrassed and some are not comfortable letting other people in

and some just want you to struggle like they did after all they had to learn the hard way

keep searching and just make sure you teach others what you know
it will come back to you
To be or not to be that is the question you anwer when you pray practice and read your word

Offline lorenz_j

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #16 on: February 11, 2007, 05:27:38 PM »

...I have also studied with some great organists who have taught me well for money of course ...


It appears to me that many who want to learn to play an instrument don't want to pay money for lessons; they want everything for free -- and that isn't good. 

A person living in any major or even small city can easily find an extremely qualified person to help them sharpen their craft if they are willing to pay money.

If a person doesn't have the money to pay for lessons then that's fine, but I've found that many don't want to make a sacrifice financially to really get better. 

More people should invest in their talent/ministry by paying for lessons.

MusiQSoul

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Re: Why do musicians refuse to teach others the craft?
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2007, 02:22:55 PM »
Well the funny thing is, i've been giving hints, lil lessons, on how i do what I do when people come to me after church or stop me in the street or what not, i realize the more I share the more God opens my eyes to to other things i didnt know, and it has allowed me to develop my own signiture style of playing, now I was fortunate to had a grand father who was just a freakin beast on the B3 and passed on a few things to me before he passed, never the less, he was always teaching and there are many guys who helped me along the way when I was learning because my grand dad helped them, Some musicians dont realize it aint a competition and the more you teach the more God will open you up to. I remember one time here this seriously gifted jazz player was hired to play at our Valetine Banquet so all of us at church could sit and enjoy the evening, I went to him and asked him to let me know some jazz progressions, you know just some tips, he didnt have to show me, he could have just told me, because I understand theory, man he looked at me as if i was a demon and never answered me, like was n't even there, now i was not that  hurt because at the time i had been playing about 12 years already so i was cool BUT a few years later dude came to me wnating to learn some R&B riffs, man i wanted to blast him but you know what? I was the better man, and taught him a few things, Now he has trouble gettin gigs and dont have a good rep as a business man, me on the other hand people just do stuff for me beyond what I expect, like theres a studio here i can just go and record in free of charge for any amount of time I need simply because I showed the owner/producer one simple chord progression he can do in R&B songs, he was so grateful because he say he been asking for so long and no one wanted to help him, but I did for free. So you see those musicians who dont share in the long run aint gone be blessed trust me thats the WORD!!
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