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Gospel Instruments => Gospel Keyboard / Piano => Topic started by: betnich on August 15, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
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Was fooling around on a choir song today and played this -
LH RH
B F A E A C#
As far as I can figure out, must be some kind of B 1/2-dim 11th chord, but am not sure.
Here is the progression in context with the chords before and after, if you would like to play it:
LH RH
G D F# D F# A D (GM9)
B F A E A C# (B1/2-dim11?)
A E G D F# A (Asus13-can add a B below the D in RH, if you like)
What do you think?
?/?
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Betnich, you must think we know something about music.
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Looks like it could be a Bmin11b5
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Could be:
B11b5 (omit 3rd)
G13b5 <--- rootless G dom chord coming from a G major chord
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Would a B half Dim. not have to have a D in it? With a flat 7, a 9 and a 11 showing, and lacking a flat 3, I would say a B11 flat 5 as well, just guessing on my part.
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Novice here, but....
It looks like a A major 9 add 6
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The 'B11 flat 5' sounds like a good description. Since there's no D or D#, jury is out whether it's major or minor.
Count on my fellow LGMers to come through - makes one feel welcomed here...
:)
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Its a C#7#5#9/B chord (so my chord analyzer says) Achord1
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{Firing up Logic Express 8}
Playing - It says "Ab13/B"
if one is looking at it bi-chordally it could be A/Bm(b5)
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Looks like it could be a Bmin11b5
I can agree with that, minus the 3rd.
The 'B11 flat 5' sounds like a good description. Since there's no D or D#, jury is out whether it's major or minor.
It's more likely minor because of the context of the chords you're playing. Had you played an F# type chord next, it would lean toward major.
Would these chords be in the key of D by any chance? I kept hearing a 4-6-5 progression as i played them.
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Yes, I was playing TROUBLES DON'T LAST ALWAYS in D - these 3 chords are quick passing chords.
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T, I'm learning here. Can you have a minor chord with no third? No third anywhere? Should not a chord be determined on its own accord by the notes in it? The flat third makes the chord minor. I know there is a simple explanation that I am not seeing.
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I always identified chords by the notes in that particular chord without regard to proceeding or following chords. I guess I really take major to be the default. You have to flat the third somewhere to have a minor. But hey, I defer to those who are learned in these matters.
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T, I'm learning here. Can you have a minor chord with no third? No third anywhere? Should not a chord be determined on its own accord by the notes in it? The flat third makes the chord minor. I know there is a simple explanation that I am not seeing.
Technically, you can't have a minor chord with no 3rd. Heck, you can't have a major chord either. So, when the 3rd is missing (no suspended 2's or 4's), you have to go to the next best explanation to name it, context.
It's sort of like those pesky dim7 chords. The only way to name them is by the chord that comes after it because dim7 chords are really 9th chords with no root.
But that may be a little too deep than some might wanna go in music theory, lol.
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Just to add on a little to my last post, back when I took college theory, we had to analyze real sheet music. And many times we ran across chords with missing 3rds (or other notes) and we had to name them somehow. Our teacher started teaching us about using the context of the chord to come up with its name.
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I'm just saying... this would avert a lot of confusion...
LOL, smh. Besides, there isn't an abrreviation for the power chord to start off with. That could be a good idea tho. Hmmmm..... :D
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LOL, smh. Besides, there isn't an abbreviation for the power chord to start off with. That could be a good idea tho. Hmmmm..... :D
I have seen "C5th" or "C no3rd" in some sheet music...
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Am looking for someone to invent a term for quartal harmony, besides the overused 'sus' 4th, 7th, etc...
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I have seen "C5th" or "C no3rd" in some sheet music...
Yeah. I've seen E5, C5, etc. But people might confuse that with the other kind of 5. They should just make up a new abbreviation: POW!
EXACTLY!!! To my knowledge, the power chord is a guitar inspired chord, which I think needs a piano inspired counterpart. The abbreviation "pow" might work man. If you can get ur idea heard by the big theory guys, it might get added. You never know!
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For those who know theory, If I played the chord in question and asked you to name it and I played no preceeding chord and none after, what name would you give to the chord? (B-F-A/E-A-C#) Would you call it a chord at all? Would you make assumptions and call it a chord? If you made assumptions, what would be your basis for those assumptions.
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Yeah. I've seen E5, C5, etc. But people might confuse that with the other kind of 5. They should just make up a new abbreviation: POW!
I mean, this is 2012; no reason to keep the musical vocabulary stagnant just because some old guys hundreds of years ago forgot about non-third-having chords.
I would go with 'P5' or 'P4' (for Perfect 4th or 5th) instead of 'POW' - less letters to type...
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For those who know theory, If I played the chord in question and asked you to name it and I played no preceeding chord and none after, what name would you give to the chord? (B-F-A/E-A-C#) Would you call it a chord at all? Would you make assumptions and call it a chord? If you made assumptions, what would be your basis for those assumptions.
I would still call it a Bm11. Form what I've seen studying music theory, if the chord is supposed to be major (or dom), the 3rd has to be there. I've yet to come across an exception. Doesn't mean that it can't happen, i've just never seen it. Based on that, when the 3rd is missing, I usually default to the minor.
I would go with 'P5' or 'P4' (for Perfect 4th or 5th) instead of 'POW' - less letters to type...
But then it would be an interval name and not a chord name. With intervals you're ONLY playing 2 notes. With a chord, you've got both hands playing something, even if the chord happens to consist of 2 notes. Semantics maybe, lol.
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You know I heard that there was a secret chord
that David played and it pleased the Lord.
It goes like this: the 4ths the 5ths
The minor falls and the major lifts...
Blah blah and so on
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Rufus Wainwright- Hallelujah (Lyrics) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbO6P-_Zx0Y#)
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For those who know theory, If I played the chord in question and asked you to name it and I played no preceeding chord and none after, what name would you give to the chord? (B-F-A/E-A-C#) Would you call it a chord at all? Would you make assumptions and call it a chord? If you made assumptions, what would be your basis for those assumptions.
To answer your question, I'm going to approach it from a "does it sound good perspective." 11th chords typically do not sound good with a major 3rd and a major 11th/4th present (i.e. dom11 Maj11) unless you are really going for some type of "clashing sound." As a matter of fact, take a look at a few various 13th chords and you will probably find a root, 3rd, 7th, 9th, alt 5 present, but not an 11th.
When dealing with dominant and major 11th chords, two things usually happen. (a) the 11th is sharpened, or (b) the major third is omitted. Its difficult to properly name a chord without context. But if I had to communicate this chord to another person, I would have to go with V711b5 omit the 3rd.
This to me hits all the important chord qualities. root, no third, b5, dom7, 11. Theoretically, it could be wrong. But I think your intended receiver will accurately process the info.
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You betta preach up in here Mr. Jones, lol. Good stuff man!