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Main => Gospel Music Lounge => Topic started by: LaylaMonroe on June 21, 2012, 02:46:38 PM
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In one of my classes, we're discussing transracial adoption policy history. (Did y'all know that in the 60s, Louisiana kicked 23,000 black kids out of the AFDC program because they were in "unsuitable" homes? Their homes were deemed unsuitable because they were born to single mothers. That led to the growth of the foster care system and led to an aid program for foster care).
Anyway, we're having a pretty spirited debate about transracial adoption and one of my classmates said that her bff, who is white, is adopting two children from Africa. I asked her if she knew why they didn't get 2 children from right here in Georgia, I mean we have black children in Georgia who need parents, too. Then another classmate said "well I would like to know why they feel a need to raise a black child anyway?"
So anyway, do you think it is best for children to be raised in homes that reflect their cultural and religious background or do you think it doesn't matter as long as they are loved and safe?
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uey will touch down in 3....2.....1.... :D :D :D
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But srsly...
It seems to be a trend now.
If a white celebrity is adopting an African baby because they want give a child, any child, a good life, then fine.
If they're doing it to show the world how incredibly tolerant they are....don't.
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But srsly...
It seems to be a trend now.
If a white celebrity is adopting an African baby because they want give a child, any child, a good life, then fine.
If they're doing it to show the world how incredibly tolerant they are....don't.
I brought that up in the discussion too. If they want to "give a child, any child, a good life" why does that child have to come from a foreign land? I'm not sure I get that. I know this analogy simplifies things beyond reason, but I compare it to driving 3 hours across state lines to feed the homeless. I just don't get it. I mean, I'm glad those starving African children are being rescued and treated well, and exposed to a life they never would've had otherwise... but what about our own starving children who need to be rescued and exposed to a life they might not ever have?
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uey will touch down in 3....2.....1.... :D :D :D
I'm on the phone with a customer and you had me rolling. :D
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I'm on the phone with a customer and you had me rolling. :D
That reminds me. I was in the ladies room a few hours ago, and someone came in and I guess she didn't realize someone else was in there. She sat down and let out some massive sounds. I'm usually very etiquette-driven, so I'm trained to totally ignore stuff like that. Idk what got into me, but I got the giggles. I stifled it for as long as I could, then I just blurted out laughter. THAT was even more embarrassing than her flatulence. :D
I'm actually embarrassed that I even told that story. :-[
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Maybe they just don't realize that there are really needy children right there in their own backyard. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case. it is much easier (for some odd reason) to see the need in a neighbor's house and ignore the need in yours.
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Yes, and yes.
Wait, wut?
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I think the former is best, but I also think the latter could be just as beneficial as, if not more than, the former, depending on the situation. It's not just black and white for me.
Ahhh ok, I see.
I think I agree with that.
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This article makes me wonder if perhaps it DOES matter.... :-\
http://abcnews.go.com/WN/transracial-adoption-america-today/story?id=9914150#.T-OEKxdfEuc (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/transracial-adoption-america-today/story?id=9914150#.T-OEKxdfEuc)
Synopsis: black guy adopted and raised by loving white parents tells the story of how he was loved, yet felt estranged and cut off from his identity and culture.
He grew up to be a documentary filmmaker and made his first movie, "Outside Looking In," about transracial adoption. In it, he confronts his own parents for the first time.
"Ultimately, I am a part of your family," he told them in the film. "I use my name with pride. But I am also an African-American in your family and, you know, you have to see me as that."
In response, his mother said softly, "Maybe we were naive. Maybe we were. I don't know."
Bertelsen said in an interview that adoptees "don't tend to want to shake the tree too much. I call it the gratitude complex. We finally get this family, whomever they are, that we can call our own and so we adjust, we adapt, we learn to go along and get along and that's what I did."
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Ahhh ok, I see.
I think I agree with that.
The brevity of this statement implies that more wants to be said, but there is a debate on whether or not it is worthwhile to reply.
I know you, Mme Rue. I know you...
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The brevity of this statement implies that more wants to be said, but there is a debate on whether or not it is worthwhile to reply.
I know you, Mme Rue. I know you...
Spot on.
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(so like, yeah, you totally took my thread LOL! I SWEAR I was going to post this a little while ago and just didnt.
Pertaining the thread, I used to feel very strongly about this, but now I have some mixed views. A white couple at church recently won the "most children" gift for Mother's Day because they had 5 of their own children and adopted 4 African children. I began to think of all the why's, but it just came to me that maybe had THEY not adopted the children, the children would still be in horrible conditions. Sounds simple, but if you drowning, it doesnt matter what color the hand is reaching to pull you out. I dont think there will ever be a right answer other than a child is in a loving home. I think we can continually ask stuff like, "why did you give money to this charity and not that one?", but in the end, you GAVE.
As per race, this sounds a little Uey-ish, but it seems black ppl dont want the kids they make let alone adopting others. :-\ :D I dont really care any more about the racial demographic. I just desire for as many children to be helped as possible, regardless what color the parents (Im actually thinking of adopting). I do think with a US black child with a white family there maybe a struggle within the child growing up culturally tho. Cant say strongly if that is a bad factor or not.
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(so like, yeah, you totally took my thread LOL! I SWEAR I was going to post this a little while ago and just didnt.
Apparently you were too busy going IN at work.... ::) :D :D :D :P
Okay, going back to read your post now... :D
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(so like, yeah, you totally took my thread LOL! I SWEAR I was going to post this a little while ago and just didnt.
Pertaining the thread, I used to feel very strongly about this, but now I have some mixed views. A white couple at church recently won the "most children" gift for Mother's Day because they had 5 of their own children and adopted 4 African children. I began to think of all the why's, but it just came to me that maybe had THEY not adopted the children, the children would still be in horrible conditions. Sounds simple, but if you drowning, it doesnt matter what color the hand is reaching to pull you out. I dont think there will ever be a right answer other than a child is in a loving home. I think we can continually ask stuff like, "why did you give money to this charity and not that one?", but in the end, you GAVE.
As per race, this sounds a little Uey-ish, but it seems black ppl dont want the kids they make let alone adopting others. :-\ :D I dont really care any more about the racial demographic. I just desire for as many children to be helped as possible, regardless what color the parents (Im actually thinking of adopting). I do think with a US black child with a white family there maybe a struggle within the child growing up culturally tho. Cant say strongly if that is a bad factor or not.
I agree there might never be a "right" answer, but I can't help but wonder what the motive is if you're on a boat and there are 10 children drowning and you sail right past them to find an African child to rescue. I hate myself for wondering, but I really do wonder WHY. I mean, sure I'm glad you saved a child, but why'd you go past all those kids to get that one black one? What's up with that???
*sad face* I really hate that I wonder, but I do. I really think it has a lot to do with the celebrity effect... and actually, I may have just given myself a great possible thesis idea.
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It really depends on how you view the situation. Cultural and religious similiarities can definitely contribute to the upbringing of the child. There are a host of other elements to consider. Let's be real, if you adopt a child of a different race that child, the child is going to have to deal with some (additional) issues growing up. It may begin to break some of the racial barriers we stand against, but will it. Just like a child being raised by two people of the same sex, some additional issues will rise when the child is growing up. They may overcome and view it from a positive light. They may also fall to the issues and view it in a negative light. It is a risk.
It seems like, white families can adopt children (mainly black children) more successfully, than a black family can adopt a white child.
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I think it may possibly have to do with the fact that we are often better off here in the US than other countries (just like your poor stats in the other thread). Even in poverty, our orphans still have it better in run down homes, than those thatched huts across the world. That may translate to the mentality of measuring "poor-ness" and helping the more worse off. Just a thought.
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Apparently you were too busy going IN at work.... ::) :D :D :D :P
Okay, going back to read your post now... :D
LOL!! Sis...when I tell you SWIFTLY?? Whewwww... ;D
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That reminds me. I was in the ladies room a few hours ago, and someone came in and I guess she didn't realize someone else was in there. She sat down and let out some massive sounds. I'm usually very etiquette-driven, so I'm trained to totally ignore stuff like that. Idk what got into me, but I got the giggles. I stifled it for as long as I could, then I just blurted out laughter. THAT was even more embarrassing than her flatulence. :D
I'm actually embarrassed that I even told that story. :-[
Is this similar to when chevonne tells a story? :D
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I agree there might never be a "right" answer, but I can't help but wonder what the motive is if you're on a boat and there are 10 children drowning and you sail right past them to find an African child to rescue. I hate myself for wondering, but I really do wonder WHY. I mean, sure I'm glad you saved a child, but why'd you go past all those kids to get that one black one? What's up with that???
*sad face* I really hate that I wonder, but I do. I really think it has a lot to do with the celebrity effect... and actually, I may have just given myself a great possible thesis idea.
That's the word right there.
If you have a clean heart and your only goal is to remove an African child from poverty and bring him/her to a land where there's more opportunity, then great. I applaud you. That's wonderful and beautiful and amazing.
If, in your heart, you're also considering how it will look to your friends and associates (and how they'll tell you that it's wonderful and beautiful and amazing)....if you're taking into account how tolerant and benevolent you will seem when you people see you with your African child....if any of that is a part of your thinking process then you are USING that child.
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</end thread> afaic
BTW, wasn't Ruth black? I guess that's a completely different situation, though...
COMPLETELY.
:D
That's the word right there.
If you have a clean heart and your only goal is to remove an African child from poverty and bring him/her to a land where there's more opportunity, then great. I applaud you. That's wonderful and beautiful and amazing.
If, in your heart, you're also considering how it will look to your friends and associates (and how they'll tell you that it's wonderful and beautiful and amazing)....if you're taking into account how tolerant and benevolent you will seem when you people see you with your African child....if any of that is a part of your thinking process then you are USING that child.
I agree, but I will admit that I still don't "get" it. But I can't say anything I haven't already said, so..... *shrug*
But I do agree with you.
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COMPLETELY.
:D
I agree, but I will admit that I still don't "get" it. But I can't say anything I haven't already said, so..... *shrug*
But I do agree with you.
My question may veer just a bit: why are trying to 'get it'? :-\
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My question may veer just a bit: why are trying to 'get it'? :-\
I'm surprised you have to ask. :D For one, you must know by now how very inquisitive and perhaps analytical I am. Beyond that, I take special interest in societal issues and this one is pretty significant as far as social problems go. I like understanding stuff, especially stuff that matters to me and I rarely stop trying until I understand.
I like logic, and this challenges logic (for me).
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For the most part, I see nothing wrong with it. I'd rather be adopted by a white family or an Asian family than be in an orphanage or die in an impoverished place.
My biggest concern would be the child's cultural upbringing and them being taught about how they will need to conduct themselves and how they will be treated by the rest of the world (especially if they are black). But there are so many black parents that don't teach their kids such things and there are also parents that have mixed kids and don't teach them what they need to be taught, so the child ends up having a bunch of problems. So I guess that isn't much of a valid concern.
As for the AFDC, I've never heard of that, but it sounds interesting. It must have been in the early 60's before 1965. Because after that time, the government started pushing for single parent homes.
As for why whites go and adopt black babies, I'd say the black baby is more like a pet, than a child to a lot (not all) of them. And like RJ said, it's a trend. So yeah, motive is the big thing for me. If you have a (maybe even subconscious) supremacist mindset, then you are doing it for the wrong reasons. The supremacist attitude is exactly why they go to Africa to get a baby, and not get a white baby from Europe or from right here in America.
Another reason they do it (especially for the famous ones), is for publicity and to make them look more liberal. It's nothing new. One of the reasons people like Rockefeller built black colleges like Spelman (which is named after his wife), was to make them seem more philanthropic at a time when they were not really liked because of their wealth and greed. Similar thing with the babies.
As per race, this sounds a little Uey-ish, but it seems black ppl dont want the kids they make let alone adopting others. :-\ :D
lol. I can't say I totally disagree.
I think this is relevant. lol
(http://img2-3.timeinc.net/people/i/2010/news/100510/05_10_10_cover.jpg)
I'm surprised you have to ask. :D For one, you must know by now how very inquisitive and perhaps analytical I am. Beyond that, I take special interest in societal issues and this one is pretty significant as far as social problems go. I like understanding stuff, especially stuff that matters to me and I rarely stop trying until I understand.
I like logic, and this challenges logic (for me).
I guess that's a crime to some people. :D
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So anyway, do you think it is best for children to be raised in homes that reflect their cultural and religious background or do you think it doesn't matter as long as they are loved and safe?
i won't my cake and ice cream on this topic
(http://www.pitch.com/imager/blue-bells-newest-flavor-is-cake-and-ice-cream/b/original/2545717/f563/bluebell.icecreamcake.jpg)
LOL, i prefer all 4 personally ... okay now i need to read everyone else's response
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wow interesting topic
so would it be too far to say that it is possible for some people that this is like getting a designer pet? A conversational piece ... about their volunteering?
I'm sure no one will ever admit to this but interesting nevertheless ... there is another question
Is there a trend for African-Americans to adopt children from Africa ... i might bring that up to my wife if our next kid is a boy and if we still desire to have a daughter.
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wow interesting topic
so would it be too far to say that it is possible for some people that this is like getting a designer pet? A conversational piece ... about their volunteering?
I'm sure no one will ever admit to this but interesting nevertheless ... there is another question
Is there a trend for African-Americans to adopt children from Africa ... i might bring that up to my wife if our next kid is a boy and if we still desire to have a daughter.
I highly doubt it. First of all, there are very few Black adoptive parents (relative to other ethnic groups). Secondly, I don't think it's likely that a black person would go past the kids in their own cities/counties to find children in need in another country... on another continent. It's just not likely, imo.
I like what U13 said about the African children being like a pet. I can see that. I've read plenty of articles about celebrities and their designer pets, and how that whole trend has evolved. Their pets really are conversation pieces, especially the toy dogs. I don't think it's a stretch to hypothesize that transracial adoptions can fall into that same category.
OAN: Sandra Bullock's baby is just doggone ADORABLE.
Oh and Uey, AFDC is Aid for Families with Dependent Children. It's a form of welfare. And yeah, the Louisiana thing happened in 1961 and to be fair, there were other states that did the same thing. Louisiana was the one that sparked the change though, because its effects were so far reaching.
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I have a couple friends who are part of the local foster parent network here in DE.
As such, they don't get a whole lot of voice in who the system will actually place with them.
My friends are white; she's some Euro-mutt descent (like me) and he is Euro/Latino and was adopted by his parents when he was little.
They can not have children the "old fashioned way' for whatever reason.
The two children they were placed with are black, two brothers aged 2 and 3. Their natural mom has 3 other kids, all in various states of living conditions due to her issues w/ drugs and so on...
My friends love these kids like nothing else and actually entered into the adoption process because the mom is unwilling/unable to get her act together.
Just found out last week that they were granted full parental rights and are the new 'parents' of these two little boys.
There's talk of my friends actually inquiring about the other siblings, but the process is long and VERY painful...the number of days/nights spent in tearful prayer for this family has been too many to mention.
I've got other friends who are white and have two kids of their own, but were led to adopt two children from Haiti.
Seems to be working out for them.
In my mind, what's best for the children is to have a natural mom and dad all together as one family unit. If that #1 option is not possible for whatever reason(s), any other option that closely resembles that (w/ a mom and dad present), even if the culture/color is different, is as good as it gets.
What I start to take issue with is single moms or dads (does this even happen?) want to adopt or even gay couples.
I'm not saying that healthy, loving environments can't exist in those cases, but I personally get bothered by them for whatever reasons I can't fully explain.
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What I start to take issue with is single moms or dads (does this even happen?) want to adopt...
I'm not saying that healthy, loving environments can't exist in those cases, but I personally get bothered by them for whatever reasons I can't fully explain.
Yes, it does happen.
My take on that is similar to my take on transracial, except I am in favor of single parent adoptions. I believe, as you stated, it is best for a child to be with their own biological mother and father. If that is not possible, I believe it is best to be with a biological family member. That will preserve not only their cultural and ethnic identity, but also their genealogical/familial identity. And I place a great amount of value on identity; I think it is extremely important.
If those scenarios are not possible, and for nearly 150,000 American children, it is NOT, I believe children should be adopted by adults (single or married) who identify most closely with their culture. I think this is especially important for young children, maybe under the age of 8 or 10 or so. I realize that many transracial adoptive parents take great strides to preserve the children's identity by getting them role models, enrolling them in programs, learning and teaching the kids' culture, etc. And I believe this is better than nothing. But that doesn't happen in every case, and a lot of these kids enjoy a fun and loving childhood and end up with a lot of issues in adulthood.
Like this (http://abcnews.go.com/WN/transracial-adoption-america-today/story?id=9914150#.T-OEKxdfEuc) guy.
I don't mind the single parent adoptions, but I consider it a last resort - just like transracial.
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I just came across another article. It contained this quote, which I found interesting:
"Social workers used to tell parents, 'You just raise your child as though you gave birth to her,' " Adam Pertman, executive director of the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute, tells NPR's Neal Conan. "An extreme majority of transracially adopted kids …grew up wishing they were white or thinking they were white, not wanting to look in mirrors."
Pertman's organization has conducted extensive research on transracial adoption in America. He says turning a blind eye to race wasn't good for anybody. "We don't live in a colorblind society," he says.
http://www.npr.org/2011/05/11/136208967/transracial-adoptions-raise-parenting-dilemmas (http://www.npr.org/2011/05/11/136208967/transracial-adoptions-raise-parenting-dilemmas)
I don't mean to (nor do I intend to) beat a dead horse. I just wanted to make the point that I think the perspective of a transracially adopted person may differ from what we think is realistic, ideal or logical. I think that the average non-racist, loving person would probably think it doesn't matter. I had a classmate who said that she is colorblind, so she doesn't think it matters. I hear that point and consider it valid. But I think that those who are actually the adopted children of parents who are of a different ethnicity may have a different experience, and I don't think most of us can relate.
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I believe I'd like to ask the adopted person this one question:
Would you prefer to live where you were, in squalor, and whatever type of poor conditions were relegated to your country, or would you prefer to have been adopted, and given a chance to prosper as humans should?
In other words, which one is of more importance to you?
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Good question.
I hate to answer it since I'm not adopted, but I can't imagine that one wouldn't have chosen adoption. I don't think the point is that being adopted is worse than living destitute, just that they seem to wish their adoptive parents would've known that preserving culture and identity is important too.
From what I've read, the adults who were adopted don't seem to regret it or even resent their parents at all. By every account I've read, they've been grateful and nothing but positive about their childhood experiences. They just acknowledge the missing piece that their parents didn't seem to "get."
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Maybe I see it differently because I'm a white guy from the 'burbs, but I don't place as much emphasis on cultural identity as others do and I echo 100% of what SketchMan3 said.
Yeah, it's probably naive to think like that, but I do know that there are some throughout ALL cultures that seek to divide through identity more than they seek to unify.
Yes, Heaven will be different. Much.