LearnGospelMusic.com Community
Main => Ministry, M.O.M, Praise Teams and Choirs => Topic started by: bishopcole on June 21, 2006, 10:49:38 AM
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I have read and been asked as of lately questions about this subject and I want to see just how many people want to know how to fix this ongoing problem with your choir/ choirs, so please let me know if this is your church choir problem and also if there are any great suggestions, and I know that there is, from other great M.O.M'S out there on this touchy topic so that God can be Glorified!! God bless, Bishop Cole
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Let me start off by saying this: I think a lot of people are missing the fact that it takes way more than just prayer and anointing for something to work out.
If prayer and anointing did it, we would all not need to work 40-50 hours a week because we would have way more than enough to supply our needs. Same with the choir. It takes more than just the anointing. Let me do a quick lesson.
From the spiritual side, I think most choirs are hitting it very well: prayer and anointing. Let's look at the natural side of where we are missing the mark: musicianship and showmanship. Let's start off with a few definitions
musicianship n : artistry in performing music
showmanship n : the ability to present something in an attractive manner
Let's start with musicianship: It takes time away from a 1-2 hour rehearsal to get things prepared on both ends. From musicians, it means having music ready BEFORE rehearsal time so that time isn't wasted figuring out notes. From the singers view, it means grabbing a copy of the song and learning lyrics and trying to figure out your notes. It also means enunciation, proper breathing, etc.
Now showmanship: Christians act like this is a bad word to use in the church, however it is well needed to perform (or minister) effectively. Musicianship is very important, but if I'm in the audience and you are singing well but you don't have the look on your face or the vivacious behavior over in the music corner, I'm going to have a hard time getting with you. There have been many choirs that I've seen where they sing awesome according to musicianship but did not look like they wanted to be there.....other times, choirs who may have not mastered musicianship definitely had the showmanship, and people in the congregation are looking more for showmanship.
From a showman himself (choir director), I tell people plenty of times that I could direct that song a different way and the choir will probably sound the same, but it's something about my live character that causes excitement in the choir members, which ultimately makes the congregation get with the choir. No I'm not being fake and trying to conjure up something, however if you know me, you know music is my passion....so I just put my all in directing.
Hope this helps somebody and answers your question, bishop :)
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For me this topic is really about VISION. Direction of the choir.
You can have the all practices right & all the music sounding right but if each individual doesn't understand the purpose of the choir, whether its to be the best choir in the area or to make sure every week that someone at church is touched then a choir is lost.
The vision of the Choir Director/MOM should be clearly protrayed to choir members. The choir members in turn have the oppurtunity to stop fronting & fooling with the ministry of God. Get out if they don't agree with the purposes of the choir or stay & get blessed by blessing others.
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AMEN. I agree with you VT. I mean, in my church, showmanship is a no-no almost. My choir takes an hour to go through one song... Musicians aint on point, and we wonder why Sunday is pieced together... My entire music ministry is on a 4 week consecration because of this. Can you imagine, in the contemporary era, NO MUSIC, NO SINGING... Hymnals and clapping. LOL!!! I dont think folks reaize how important music is for worship. I am gonna give your lesson to my choir directors... I know it'll strike a chord with them.
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AMEN. I agree with you VT. I mean, in my church, showmanship is a no-no almost. My choir takes an hour to go through one song... Musicians aint on point, and we wonder why Sunday is pieced together... My entire music ministry is on a 4 week consecration because of this. Can you imagine, in the contemporary era, NO MUSIC, NO SINGING... Hymnals and clapping. LOL!!! I dont think folks reaize how important music is for worship. I am gonna give your lesson to my choir directors... I know it'll strike a chord with them.
Glad to know I could be of assistance :)
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Glad to know I could be of assistance :)
You needs to stroll on over to Williamsburg sometime.
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Showmanship is nice to have but we must never forget why we are there in the first place.
God is who gave us the gift and talent of music and to him ALL HONOR should go, I don’t think there is any thing wrong is looking good or putting on a good show but let us never forget it’s not about us we do it to praise God.
So with that in mind sing songs of praise and give all honors to God Almighty thru your gift of music.
P.S. I do understand about showmanship also I use to be a active musician for years in a band and then discovered the Lord and now play to bring honor and glory to his name
God Bless
PT.
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Showmanship is nice to have but we must never forget why we are there in the first place.
God is who gave us the gift and talent of music and to him ALL HONOR should go, I don’t think there is any thing wrong is looking good or putting on a good show but let us never forget it’s not about us we do it to praise God.
So with that in mind sing songs of praise and give all honors to God Almighty thru your gift of music.
P.S. I do understand about showmanship also I use to be a active musician for years in a band and then discovered the Lord and now play to bring honor and glory to his name
God Bless
PT.
Thank you for your thoughts and awesome answer and WELCOME TO LGM!!! God bless, Bishop Cole
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Showmanship is nice to have but we must never forget why we are there in the first place.
God is who gave us the gift and talent of music and to him ALL HONOR should go, I don’t think there is any thing wrong is looking good or putting on a good show but let us never forget it’s not about us we do it to praise God.
So with that in mind sing songs of praise and give all honors to God Almighty thru your gift of music.
P.S. I do understand about showmanship also I use to be a active musician for years in a band and then discovered the Lord and now play to bring honor and glory to his name
God Bless
PT.
Welcome to LGM! I do understand your post and I guess in a way I came off with the mindset that everyone knows you should honor God up there in your music. I was pretty much posting on how to make your choir successful in the natural rather than us honoring God and sounding a HOT MESS :)
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Welcome to LGM! I do understand your post and I guess in a way I came off with the mindset that everyone knows you should honor God up there in your music. I was pretty much posting on how to make your choir successful in the natural rather than us honoring God and sounding a HOT MESS :)
Well Vt, I most adsurely understand where you were coming from and this is so true what you have stated. Bishop Cole
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I aslo believe that we should have a good atitude to what we do in the choir as individual.Sometimes we allow our problems of life kind of ruin our ministration in the church.Like I tell my choir members,if u put up a sad face,it will tell on the song you are ministering to the people.So to build the choir and strengthen then,one need to put on the right atitude all the time
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I aslo believe that we should have a good atitude to what we do in the choir as individual.Sometimes we allow our problems of life kind of ruin our ministration in the church.Like I tell my choir members,if u put up a sad face,it will tell on the song you are ministering to the people.So to build the choir and strengthen then,one need to put on the right atitude all the time
Welcome to LGM Antonio! I agree with that statement; all a part of showmanship
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Welcome to LGM Antonio! I agree with that statement; all a part of showmanship
Same here my Brother, welcome to LGM!!! Bishop Cole
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Welcome to LGM! I do understand your post and I guess in a way I came off with the mindset that everyone knows you should honor God up there in your music. I was pretty much posting on how to make your choir successful in the natural rather than us honoring God and sounding a HOT MESS
I totally agree especially with the part of sounding a HOT MESS!! I have heard annioting singers on the wrong key, they. flat an overall sound a HAM (Hot A$& mess) if you know what I mean
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I belong to a young church and we, as yet, have no musicians. But as President of the Young adult choir and advisor to the youth choir I have begun to drill showmanship. I agree with you Vt, the only place I disagree with you is that singing in the choir is a ministry unto God,so He is the only audience I tell my choir to be concerned with.I grew up in a church with some awesome singers who entertained the congregation every Sunday,but if our lives are not in agreement with the songs we sing, it does not matter how much energy I put out for man to clap their hands for me. Singing is a passion for me also I love the music ministry.But I want to make sure what I do on this earth is so my Father be glorified,and not entertainment. I think that is where the confusion comes in people focus on entertaining and forget about the ministry and the ushering of the Holy Spirit. I tell my choir let the song first minister to your heart before you stand to minster to someone else. We should sing with as much energy and zeal as we can muster, as if God were sitting in the front pew. The power of the anointing will move upon the congregation. If we are doing it for the right reasons The Spirit will move without any extra help from me :)
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I belong to a young church and we, as yet, have no musicians. But as President of the Young adult choir and advisor to the youth choir I have begun to drill showmanship. I agree with you Vt, the only place I disagree with you is that singing in the choir is a ministry unto God,so He is the only audience I tell my choir to be concerned with.I grew up in a church with some awesome singers who entertained the congregation every Sunday,but if our lives are not in agreement with the songs we sing, it does not matter how much energy I put out for man to clap their hands for me. Singing is a passion for me also I love the music ministry.But I want to make sure what I do on this earth is so my Father be glorified,and not entertainment. I think that is where the confusion comes in people focus on entertaining and forget about the ministry and the ushering of the Holy Spirit. I tell my choir let the song first minister to your heart before you stand to minster to someone else. We should sing with as much energy and zeal as we can muster, as if God were sitting in the front pew. The power of the anointing will move upon the congregation. If we are doing it for the right reasons The Spirit will move without any extra help from me :)
Welcome to LGM AND REMEMBER" It is not about the music it is about the ministry" Bishop Cole
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Hi I am brand new to the music ministry and had a passion for years with the little peoples chior. Kids love Jesus too! Vicky Winans song. I am looking for some help in getting started, age group are 2 too 12 maybe older. Help!!
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Hi I am brand new to the music ministry and had a passion for years with the little peoples chior. Kids love Jesus too! Vicky Winans song. I am looking for some help in getting started, age group are 2 too 12 maybe older. Help!!
Welcome Karen to LGM, now what kind of help are you needing concerning your young choir? Bishop Cole
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Praise and worship music, I also believe that children love to sing and need to work on their vocals Is their any books on this subject? Now let me go back a little and say that God has put this on my haeart over a year ago. I was told go ahead and then a change of mind came about. They were going to work with what they had. Since last September the chior was left with no one to direct them. I ask again and have the go ahead this time for sure. It was a battle zone for a while with the other two Directors. Too me it should not me and especially were children are concerned. They are there to grow in Christ, not watch adults fight like they where. Any thing you give me or direct you will be a start for September. Thanks so musch![/quote][/quote][/quote]
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Hello to All!
It's been a long time since I last posted anything but, here we go. Everyone has had awesome comments, thanks for the help. But this is my "issue". I am Minister of Music/Co-Pastor/First Lady, etc.... (You Understand) :o But we are a small ministry with just 3 on the praise time and myself. Okay I do not have the priviledge of working with those with voices :'( :'(. When we practice a song, depending on the song, I can put them on key and they will stay there. Then there are other times, I can put them on their key and they can stay there until we are getting ready to sing it in service >:(. Please somebody help me deal with this issue. I understand your point VT but right now "showmanship is not in my vocabulary simply because where I am from there are so many people who come to church for "showmanship" and God has been dealing with me strong on ushering people into His presence without the "prime and the pump". Please understand me I am not saying this is what you do. To each his own, right? Again I understand where you are coming from because I have seen some choirs who just don't have no "showmanship" about them whatsoever and they sing a song and no one can tell that they feel what they are singing. So I feel you brother, and I'm not coming against your statement in any kind of way. But somebody help me not to get so frustrated with these jokers ::) :D ;)
Be Blessed
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Hello to All!
It's been a long time since I last posted anything but, here we go. Everyone has had awesome comments, thanks for the help. But this is my "issue". I am Minister of Music/Co-Pastor/First Lady, etc.... (You Understand) :o But we are a small ministry with just 3 on the praise time and myself. Okay I do not have the priviledge of working with those with voices :'( :'(. When we practice a song, depending on the song, I can put them on key and they will stay there. Then there are other times, I can put them on their key and they can stay there until we are getting ready to sing it in service >:(. Please somebody help me deal with this issue. I understand your point VT but right now "showmanship is not in my vocabulary simply because where I am from there are so many people who come to church for "showmanship" and God has been dealing with me strong on ushering people into His presence without the "prime and the pump". Please understand me I am not saying this is what you do. To each his own, right? Again I understand where you are coming from because I have seen some choirs who just don't have no "showmanship" about them whatsoever and they sing a song and no one can tell that they feel what they are singing. So I feel you brother, and I'm not coming against your statement in any kind of way. But somebody help me not to get so frustrated with these jokers ::) :D ;)
Be Blessed
How much do you practice with these three? Bishop Cole
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I do think that people forget what's it about in the first place - that is why you have to be careful who you let in and who needs to be out. We have gotten to a place where we care more about numbers than sanctification. If you got a bunch of devils singing then how is God getting the glory?
Joy
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Praise and worship music, I also believe that children love to sing and need to work on their vocals Is their any books on this subject? Now let me go back a little and say that God has put this on my haeart over a year ago. I was told go ahead and then a change of mind came about. They were going to work with what they had. Since last September the chior was left with no one to direct them. I ask again and have the go ahead this time for sure. It was a battle zone for a while with the other two Directors. Too me it should not me and especially were children are concerned. They are there to grow in Christ, not watch adults fight like they where. Any thing you give me or direct you will be a start for September. Thanks so musch!
Hey Sweetie! Boy do I know where you are :) I was appointed the M.O.M. for the youth at our church just because I play the piano! The important things I have learned are: pray first- a volunteer from the choir, and then yourself. Start with a "easy" song from the hymnal - a kids one. Sometimes when I bring in a "Hymnal Song" I let the kids hear the song, then I allow them to choose how they want to jazz it up and change it. This gives the kids "ownership" of the process as well as the product. (it also brings the older crowd into what the kids are doing as praise and worship songs can be new to the mature audience members) Also, kids love to sing fast, foot stomping, clapping songs. Holla back songs have become popular with my choirs ( yes, we've grown to 2 choirs). It's not easy, but thru trial and error you'll find your way. I have found it is hard to teach some kids to sing to God. However, when I taught them the importance of leading the church into worship and their hearts and minds ready for the service... that seemed to help. Letting the kids know you're just alittle crazier then they are helps alot too ;D Lets see... "Friend of God", "Shackles".. current service favorites. Fun songs just for kids services are oldies; "Father Abraham", "The Lord's Army" the action songs never seem to get old with the kids - have you sang the "Scratch a friends back" song with the kids? It's always requested during our free sing time ;D Good luck with this venture! Let me know if you need any lyrics or other ideas... and try not to get too overwhelmed. Most importantly, don't forget to pray! God Bless! :D