A question

[dwest2419]

Hi guys back with another thread. I just have this one question that I been wanting to ask. In this video, and am sure piano players can relate, what does he mean by a 7-3-6 chord progression this guy talks about in the video? Hopefully t block or gtrdave can sort this matter out!

7 3 6 progression

[dwest2419]

And by the way I understand a vii - iii - vi but whats a 7-3-6? To me that could mean anything!

[funkStrat_97]

And by the way I understand a vii - iii - vi but whats a 7-3-6? To me that could mean anything!

I don't understand what you don't understand 

[dwest2419]

An vii - iii - vi  equals a seven -  three - six listed as in roman numerals - seven as a diminished chord - three as a minor chord - six as a minor chord

vii diminished - iii > minor - vi > minor

But my question remains what is a 7 - 3 - 6 chord progression? To me that could mean anything! I've seen these guys take that word and it would be completely out of context. Hopefully t block or gtrdave can further sort this particular matter out!

[dwest2419]

Now this is a description of what actually talking about funkstrat. In this video the guy gives numbers to the key of Ab of song by a guy called Dewayne Woods

Let Go Let God by DeWayne Woods

[berbie]

It is hard to understand your question, dwest2419.  The guy in the first video seems to be playing 7-3-6s.  Unless you mean the form of the chords played in the right hand.  They, of course, might be anything. I'm waiting for the answer myself.

[funkStrat_97]

I haven't seen the video yet, but to me, a 7-3-6 progression means just that.  The vii diminished/half-dim. 7; the iii minor/minor 7 (or possibly a III 7); and the vi minor/minor 7 chords.  I don't know what else it could mean. 

[betnich]

The numerals (Roman or Arabic) refer to the roots of the chords, I believe.

In the key of C for the progression  Bm7(b5)  E7  Am  , the Bass would play B,  E,  A.
For other instrumentalists, there would probably be some inversions involved...

[Sillyie]

In the first video he is discussing the 1-7-3-6 chord progression in the key of Db. Meaning he is going from the Db to the C to the F to the Bb. The (1), Db major but he is playing a Ab on the top and bottom, to the ( 7) C-fully diminished to a (3)F #9#5 to a (6) Bb minor 7. He is also playing pickup notes in between the chords.

The 7-3-6 progression is mostly used when you want to continue singing/playing at the end of a song.

[sjonathan02]

An vii - iii - vi  equals a seven -  three - six listed as in roman numerals - seven as a diminished chord - three as a minor chord - six as a minor chord

vii diminished - iii > minor - vi > minor

But my question remains what is a 7 - 3 - 6 chord progression? To me that could mean anything! I've seen these guys take that word and it would be completely out of context. Hopefully t block or gtrdave can further sort this particular matter out!

Bruh, it's no great mystery.  It's the same thing you understand it to be.  Now, while not having viewed the video yet, the person may be using different chords in the right hand but the basic 7-3-6 root you understand is what he's using in his left hand (I'm fairly certain).

[gtrdave]

He's using basic numbers to describe the chord progression, rather than classic Roman numerals.
Using the basic alphanumeric symbols is more akin to the Nashville Numbers System of communicating chord progressions and very commonly used among studio and stage players.

[dwest2419]

Thanks you all for your responses it is much appreciated.

[T-Block]

The use of roman numerals (vii-iii-vi) tells you the chord to play and the inversion to play it in. Not much to figure out here because it's pretty much given to you.

The use of just numbers (7-3-6) is just naming the bass notes. The chord you choose to play is totally up to you. With this type of notation, you are free to play whatever chord you want, as long as the bottom note is correct.

So, while they are similar, they are very different in meaning.

[dwest2419]

The use of roman numerals (vii-iii-vi) tells you the chord to play and the inversion to play it in. Not much to figure out here because it's pretty much given to you.

The use of just numbers (7-3-6) is just naming the bass notes. The chord you choose to play is totally up to you. With this type of notation, you are free to play whatever chord you want, as long as the bottom note is correct.

So, while they are similar, they are very different in meaning.

Thank you t block your simply the best!

[T.J.]

Ok, this question is for T-Block or whom ever can explain this to me. I understood everything everyone was talking about until T-Block said "The use of roman numerals (vii-iii-vi) tells you the chord to play and the inversion to play it in" yes I understand the chords that you play but what is it about a vii or iii or even a vi that tell you an inversion?

[T-Block]

Here's the breakdown (examples in the key of C):

Capital letter roman numerals mean that the chord has a major base (normal 3rd):

I = major 1 chord  (C-E-G)
VI = major 6 chord (A-C#-E)


Lower case letter roman numerals mean that the chord has a minor base (flat 3rd):

i = minor 1 chord (C-Eb-G)
vi = minor 6 chord (A-C-E)


3-note chords

If the roman numeral is alone with nothing else beside it, the chord is to be played in root position. This means that the note on the very bottom (bass note) is the root:

I = major 1 chord, root position (C / C-E-G,  C / E-G-C,  C / G-C-E, etc.)


If the roman numeral has a 6 beside it, the chord is to be played in 1st inversion:

I6 = major 1 chord, 1st inversion (E / C-E-G,  E / E-G-C,  E / G-C-E, etc.)


If the roman numeral has a 6/4 beside it, the chord is to be played in 2nd inversion:

I6/4 = major 1 chord, 2nd inversion (G / C-E-G,  G / E-G-C,  G / G-C-E, etc.)


There are more, but that is what I remember off the top of my head. I haven't used Roman Numerals to name chords in a long time, so I gotta go back and brush up on my skills. Will be back with more information!

[T.J.]

Thanks T for that info, I had understood that I was for major and ii is for minor but never ever saw an I6 before, but that is good to learn just in case i do ever run across that, how popular is that notation now and days? There is no rush if ever you get a chance could you please post the rules to that kind of notation just in case there are guys out there who are like me who never seen it, and won't be in such a great shock when it comes there way. I would have been like a deer in a headlight if somone would have put I6 or I6/4 in front of me. 

Thanks again, btw I don't think I really ever told you how much I appreciate your knowledge thus far, I have learned a lot from you and others on this site and I will start giving more back by posting more songs for others, I have a couple on here, but I will be adding more as time permits.

[dwest2419]

Here's the breakdown (examples in the key of C):

Capital letter roman numerals mean that the chord has a major base (normal 3rd):

I = major 1 chord  (C-E-G)
VI = major 6 chord (A-C#-E)


Lower case letter roman numerals mean that the chord has a minor base (flat 3rd):

i = minor 1 chord (C-Eb-G)
vi = minor 6 chord (A-C-E)


3-note chords

If the roman numeral is alone with nothing else beside it, the chord is to be played in root position. This means that the note on the very bottom (bass note) is the root:

I = major 1 chord, root position (C / C-E-G,  C / E-G-C,  C / G-C-E, etc.)


If the roman numeral has a 6 beside it, the chord is to be played in 1st inversion:

I6 = major 1 chord, 1st inversion (E / C-E-G,  E / E-G-C,  E / G-C-E, etc.)


If the roman numeral has a 6/4 beside it, the chord is to be played in 2nd inversion:

I6/4 = major 1 chord, 2nd inversion (G / C-E-G,  G / E-G-C,  G / G-C-E, etc.)


There are more, but that is what I remember off the top of my head. I haven't used Roman Numerals to name chords in a long time, so I gotta go back and brush up on my skills. Will be back with more information!

Good information t block! I been struggling to understand that type of written notation. Thanks a lot!

[Virtuenow]

Okay, good question dwest.  Now that we know the "what" and the "when"... I need to know the "why".  Why in I6 is 6 used to name the first inversion?  There are no "6's" in the chord you named so it will be hard to remember w/o knowing why a 6 means the first inversion.  Also, although you said it's the first inversion, you gave three different chords.  I noticed the "E" is in the root of all those, so does the root/"E" make it the first inversion or is it the chord you're playing in right hand?

[T-Block]

Thanks T for that info, I had understood that I was for major and ii is for minor but never ever saw an I6 before, but that is good to learn just in case i do ever run across that, how popular is that notation now and days?

You're probably only encounter this notation in a music theory class. However, it's good to know from a historical perspective, seeing where the number system came from to what it is now. I'm glad that my posts are helping you become a better musician man.

Okay, good question dwest.  Now that we know the "what" and the "when"... I need to know the "why".  Why in I6 is 6 used to name the first inversion?  There are no "6's" in the chord you named so it will be hard to remember w/o knowing why a 6 means the first inversion.  Also, although you said it's the first inversion, you gave three different chords.  I noticed the "E" is in the root of all those, so does the root/"E" make it the first inversion or is it the chord you're playing in right hand?

To answer the first question, the 6 is being used because there is the interval of a 6th between the bottom note (3rd) and the root. In the case of the C major first inversion chord, the notes E-C form the interval of a 6th. 

A more formal name you would also see is I6/3 to include the interval between the bottom note (3rd) and the middle note (5th). In the C major first inversion chord, the notes E-G form the interval of a 3rd.

If you were looking at a piece of sheet music, it would make more sense visually. Keep in mind that all of this came about because in order to study something, you need a system. The system they used involved Roman numerals.
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To answer the second question, the root makes the chord a particular inversion no matter what other notes are being played. So, for the C major first inversion chord, having the E in the bass put the chord in first inversion, even though I was switching chords in the RH. You can break it up LH and RH in order to teach the voicing of the chord to someone, but ultimately the bass is gonna name the inversion.

This is where chord symbols come in handy. If you see a chord symbol like this C/E, the only information that you have is it's a C major chord and the E is in the bass. There is no clue as to how to voice it, just that the E has to be the lowest note. This gives you flexibility to play the chord however you like, but just keep the E in the bass.