And people will STILL vote for this man.....

[LaylaMonroe]

I think 'Rue and Dave should share any links they have concerning their side of the discussion as proof for their respective arguments.

I would be happy to. What links do you think would be useful?

I posted a copy/paste of a passage from the Book of Mormon, which is still used today. Here is the link to the Book of Mormon and the exact passage. This is their site, so I'm sure you can trust it as a source to their book. I think this proves that they still use the book today, but if not, I can post additional proof.

What other proof would be helpful?

[LaylaMonroe]

This is the statement made in 1978 that allowed Blacks to enter the priesthood (fellowship) of the LDS Church. As you will see, there is absolutely no repudiation of the doctrine, only the acknowledgement that God through his spirit has given a new revelation and will now allow people of all nations (read: Blacks) into the fellowship. Furthermore, in the 1990s, a Black network of members called on the church leaders to denounce and repudiate the teaching that Blacks are inferior and are cursed by God as shown in their darkened skin, and the church refused to do so. Twice. Other black members (there are always those who are afraid of making waves with white people) said that they don't need an apology, and they turned the whole thing into a focus on apology, when that's not even what the other group wanted. They didn't want an apology, but a repudiation of false doctrine. The church refused.

The statement:
---------------------------------------------
June 8, 1978

To all general and local priesthood officers of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints throughout the world:

Dear Brethren:

As we have witnessed the expansion of the work of the Lord over the earth, we have been grateful that people of many nations have responded to the message of the restored gospel, and have joined the Church in ever-increasing numbers. This, in turn, has inspired us with a desire to extend to every worthy member of the Church all of the privileges and blessings which the gospel affords.

Aware of the promises made by the prophets and presidents of the Church who have preceded us that at some time, in God's eternal plan, all of our brethren who are worthy may receive the priesthood, and witnessing the faithfulness of those from whom the priesthood has been withheld, we have pleaded long and earnestly in behalf of these, our faithful brethren, spending many hours in the Upper Room of the Temple supplicating the Lord for divine guidance.

He has heard our prayers, and by revelation has confirmed that the long-promised day has come when every faithful, worthy man in the Church may receive the holy priesthood, with power to exercise its divine authority, and enjoy with his loved ones every blessing that flows there from, including the blessings of the temple. Accordingly, all worthy male members of the Church may be ordained to the priesthood without regard for race or color. Priesthood leaders are instructed to follow the policy of carefully interviewing all candidates for ordination to either the Aaronic or the Melchizedek Priesthood to ensure that they meet the established standards for worthiness.

We declare with soberness that the Lord has now made known his will for the blessing of all his children throughout the earth who will hearken to the voice of his authorized servants, and prepare themselves to receive every blessing of the gospel.

Sincerely yours,

SPENCER W. KIMBALL
N. ELDON TANNER
MARION G. ROMNEY
The First Presidency


Source: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testament/od/2?lang=eng  (that's an official LDS website)

[gtrdave]

Yeah, the only reason I keep mentioning that they've changed their teachings (aside from the fact that I keep reading that they have) is because the LDS has a history of rewriting their theology when they are proven wrong.
One of the more recent "issues" that they have had to deal with is claiming that Native Americans, Latino Americans and Polynesians are somehow related to the lost tribes of Israel that came to America many years ago (the Lamanites), but DNA research has proven that this could have never been the case.
http://mit.irr.org/lamanites-no-more-dna-and-lost-ties-father-lehi
The leaders are still wrestling with this one, or so I have read...

If they really are still teaching those old racist doctrines, then shame on them, especially for claiming that they stopped and yet have continued.

We do agree that race matters. I mean, I wish it didn't matter, but that's not the world we live in right now.

[cas10a]

I think 'Rue and Dave should share any links they have concerning their side of the discussion as proof for their respective arguments.

SJ...you starting a debate and we got enough of them coming up starting Oct 5...lol!...but it's all good. It will be interesting...:-)

[betnich]

The Rue and Dave Debate!

Will you be doing Pay-Per-View like Jon Stewart and O'Reilly?

 

[gtrdave]

The Rue and Dave Debate!

Will you be doing Pay-Per-View like Jon Stewart and O'Reilly?

 

It's going to be pretty one-sided for a while as I got to go minister @ the Sunday Breakfast Mission in just a few. 

I'll see how much I can contribute when I get home.

[LaylaMonroe]

This is interesting:

White church member Eugene England, a professor at Brigham Young University, wrote in 1998:
This is a good time to remind ourselves that most Mormons are still in denial about the ban, unwilling to talk in Church settings about it, and that some Mormons still believe that Blacks were cursed by descent from Cain through Ham. Even more believe that Blacks, as well as other non-white people, come color-coded into the world, their lineage and even their class a direct indication of failures in a previous life.... I check occasionally in classes at BYU and find that still, twenty years after the revelation, a majority of bright, well-educated Mormon students say they believe that Blacks are descendants of Cain and Ham and thereby cursed and that skin color is an indication of righteousness in the pre-mortal life. They tell me these ideas came from their parents or Seminary and Sunday School teachers, and they have never questioned them. They seem largely untroubled by the implicit contradiction to basic gospel teachings.

So on the one hand, they find it "intriguing" that some of their members still believe blacks are cursed (uh yeah, it's still in their bible), but on the other hand, they acknowledge that these kids are getting it from LDS seminary, LDS Sunday School, and LDS parents. They acknowledge that it is an "implicit" contradiction to their gospel, but their gospel still shows this teaching.

Source

[cas10a]

LOL!...I'll pay...or just bring some good chicken picks like you all normally do and I'll make me some at home while I digest the food...lol.  The carribian jerk chicken made me hungry in the 1 thread...anyway, I'll talk to you all later, have a blessed evening...

[Fenix]

Wait.

How do they know that blacks are descended from Cain? Where did that come from?

[LaylaMonroe]

And the last thing I'll add is this little quote:

Unfortunately, the blacks-as-cursed belief continues to be circulated at the grass-roots level and supported in quasi-official publications such as Mormon Doctrine and the Mortal Messiah series by Bruce R. McConkie, an influential LDS apostle who died in 1985. All attempts to get the church to repudiate these notions have been rebuffed.

Source


I don't like to use Wikipedia as a valid source, but there's a lot of interesting insight here, and if anyone cares to, you can research the validity of the article and find that it's valid and unbiased. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_people_and_Mormonism

[LaylaMonroe]

Wait.

How do they know that blacks are descended from Cain? Where did that come from?

Here is a link that should explain everything in detail. If you don't feel like reading a link, I'll be glad to explain what little I know. http://www.mrm.org/curse-of-cain

And while reading the link, you have to keep in mind that Mormons believe that Jesus and satan are brothers, and that God is father of both. Jesus was the good son and Lucifer was the bad son. Jesus and Lucifer both presented a plan for salvation to God the Father, and Lucifer's plan was rejected. He got angry and to get back at his brother and their dad, he took a bunch of spirit children (later called demons) to go to war with God and they all got kicked out of the heaven and became satan and demons.

[cas10a]

I haven't read the link yet, so I'll co-sign if I agree or disagree later, I pressed the wrong link to where I agree with Larue on, but whatever.  Both Larue makes good points and so does gtrdave...This election cycle is probably one of the hardest I've seen, because it is a pure referendum on the President's policies and if people don't vote for him, nothing he did really mattered!  I honestly didn't vote for him, but I would vote for him now, he needs everyone's vote now more than ever if you put him in office in 2008 or nothing he did really matters.

I could go down the list from when I was in Afghan in 2001/2002 when the war started...the war in Iraq has been going on for centuries and we involved America in this war...I told my boss then, nothing good would come from it...and nothing has...   

[Arkhams Finest]

I agree with Furious.

[cas10a]

I agree with Furious.

Agree with Fuious on what, I was there also...nothing good has come from 2001, what would be the prescription...in the Bush years it was to Blow every country up over there and be done with it...what would anyone else suggest?  Not right!!

[Arkhams Finest]

Agree with Fuious on what, I was there also...nothing good has come from 2001, what would be the prescription...in the Bush years it was to Blow every country up over there and be done with it...what would anyone else suggest?  Not right!!

On what?  It doesn't matter.  I agree with Furious Styles on all matters great and small.

[csedwards2]

I dare not put a direct link here because the LDS church is suing this site for copyright infringement, but go to wikileaks.org and after clicking on the archives, search for "LDS". There are downloadable files for the Mormon Handbook of Instructions. They have several versions, in my recent check the 2006 one is the latest, as it looks like the 2008 was pulled down. I read through the 2008 before they pulled it and there was alot of interesting stuff on their beliefs, even the qualifications and procedures for the Elders that come to witness (2 years, no contact with friends or fam), their policies on baptism (all baptisms are invalid except an LDS baptism), baptisms for the dead, etc.. The site also have other docs on female beauty, a psa on their official response to gay marriage, etc. etc

[cas10a]

On what?  It doesn't matter.  I agree with Furious Styles on all matters great and small.

No it doesn't matter bruh...and you are we are all good...I was just asking what is it that you agreed with him upon?  but if you agree with him on everything he says it's all good!....

Bruh check yourself before you defend people so seriously,  I already know Furious Styles is an ok bruh, but you don't need to defend him becuase I never called his name out and honestly I didn't even know he responded any differently to me.  We all have different views and I respect the views of others regardless of what I believe.

[funkStrat_97]

Wait.

How do they know that blacks are descended from Cain? Where did that come from?

...they don't.  They are a false religion.

[Arkhams Finest]

No it doesn't matter bruh...and you are we are all good...I was just asking what is it that you agreed with him upon?  but if you agree with him on everything he says it's all good!....

My humor is wasted in this thread.   

[LaylaMonroe]

LMBO @ RJ