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Author Topic: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants  (Read 5291 times)

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2012, 02:06:38 PM »
I believe I do as well...lol.




Why are the replubicans so mad?!!!  Didn't Reagan do something similiar to this during his 1st four years in office?

I suck at history, so I don't know if Reagan did.... but I will say this: even if he did, that doesn't make it right. The Republicans are mad because (a) they hate President Obama, and (b) he made a bad call, giving amnesty to nearly a million people who came here illegally, even if it wasn't their fault.

Quote
"Many illegal immigrants will falsely claim they came here as children and the federal government has no way to check whether their claims are true," Smith said in a statement. "And once these illegal immigrants are granted deferred action, they can then apply for a work permit, which the administration routinely grants 90% of the time."

Quote
In a Twitter post, Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina said the decision "avoids dealing with Congress and the American people instead of fixing a broken immigration system once and for all."

The first quote speaks to Jonathan's point. The second quote is another one of my concerns. Why do we keep focusing on the consequence and not the problem? It's like putting buckets down instead of fixing the leaky roof.
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Offline under13

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2012, 02:10:16 PM »
That also reminds me. Another expense is ESL. I have no idea what the number is, but I can only imagine how expensive it is to provide ESL services for so many people. When I was in elementary school, my town had 12 schools and only one of them had ESL classes. Anyone who spoke a different primary language had to go to that school. It was a good school, fwiw. But now, all the schools have ESL. That has to be costly, no? Faculty, space, curriculum, materials...

As for the jobs thing, I think the counter-argument is always that they're not taking our jobs, they're taking the jobs we don't want.


Yeah, the town I grew up in had a large immigrant population. A lot of them bring the test scores way down, which brings the school system rating down, which brings property values down while bringing taxes up to pay for all of these esl classes.

I don't buy that. To say the least

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2012, 02:33:14 PM »
The problem for me, is reconciling ideology with the bottom line. In theory, it's only right to have compassion on people when their country is in such a dire situation, that they try to escape to improve their lives. We've always lived in this country and it's always been for the most part a good place to live.  I just imagine it being me born in area with extreme poverty and extreme crime, and trying to leave that place and go to a better place, while risking my life and my freedom in the process.  I can't fault them for wanting to leave for their children's sake. However, I don't know how to make it right financially where it doesn't take from the citizens of this country. But I know from my upbringing it's only right to want to have compassion and to help people in such a situation.

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2012, 02:47:16 PM »
The problem for me, is reconciling ideology with the bottom line. In theory, it's only right to have compassion on people when their country is in such a dire situation, that they try to escape to improve their lives. We've always lived in this country and it's always been for the most part a good place to live.  I just imagine it being me born in area with extreme poverty and extreme crime, and trying to leave that place and go to a better place, while risking my life and my freedom in the process.  I can't fault them for wanting to leave for their children's sake. However, I don't know how to make it right financially where it doesn't take from the citizens of this country. But I know from my upbringing it's only right to want to have compassion and to help people in such a situation.

In principle, I totally agree with you. I don't see how anyone can disagree because it's just logical.

HOWEVER, I think that in some cases, our impression of just how bad some people have it is incorrect. For example, Atlanta has a LOT of Mexican immigrants. I. mean. a. lot. But Mexico, as a whole, is not that bad a country. It has one of the world's largest economies and there are a lot of people in Mexico who do very well. I'm guessing that the folks who come here probably live in the more depressed and dangerous cities... but instead of moving illegally to another country, why not just move elsewhere in your country, where you are still a legal citizen?

That's not a rhetorical question. I really don't know the answer.

I guess the ones from oppressive places, like Saudi Arabia and the like, I can understand why they would move here... but even then, I think there are other places (like Algeria) that would be as good a fit, if not better... and legal.

I guess that's what I'm not getting. I get wanting a better life for your kids. I don't get breaking the law to get it. And I don't get having kids if you know you can't give them a good life in XYZ country (barring exceptions, of course).
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Offline cordney

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2012, 02:48:15 PM »
The problem for me, is reconciling ideology with the bottom line. In theory, it's only right to have compassion on people when their country is in such a dire situation, that they try to escape to improve their lives. We've always lived in this country and it's always been for the most part a good place to live.  I just imagine it being me born in area with extreme poverty and extreme crime, and trying to leave that place and go to a better place, while risking my life and my freedom in the process.  I can't fault them for wanting to leave for their children's sake. However, I don't know how to make it right financially where it doesn't take from the citizens of this country. But I know from my upbringing it's only right to want to have compassion and to help people in such a situation.

Some people might try to escape America because they feel that way...however, I don't see any country, besides us, allowing individuals to prosper illegally
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2012, 02:55:19 PM »
Some people might try to escape America because they feel that way...however, I don't see any country, besides us, allowing individuals to prosper illegally

You know, there are actually TWO good points in there.
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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #26 on: June 15, 2012, 03:02:07 PM »
Some people might try to escape America because they feel that way...however, I don't see any country, besides us, allowing individuals to prosper illegally

Hmmm. Interesting. Well we're suppose to be the land of opportunity so....

How many other countries in the world are as "prosperous" as we are?

Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2012, 03:06:05 PM »
Some people might try to escape America because they feel that way...however, I don't see any country, besides us, allowing individuals to prosper illegally

I understand your overall point but it's not 'escaping' America. We're free to come and go as we please provided our passports are up to date. Now, that's off the top of my head, there may be more to it than that but I'm not certain.
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #28 on: June 15, 2012, 03:08:03 PM »
I understand your overall point but it's not 'escaping' America. We're free to come and go as we please provided our passports are up to date. Now, that's off the top of my head, there may be more to it than that but I'm not certain.

Not really. I learned a little bit about this when I was trying to move to Spain last year and earlier this year.

Sure we can come and go (MOSTLY) as we please, but we sure can't stay anywhere we please for as long as we please. Other countries have rules, just like we do... but they enforce theirs without compromise. Other countries are a lot stricter about visitors and immigration than the US is.
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Offline gtrdave

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #29 on: June 15, 2012, 03:10:16 PM »
Hmmm. Interesting. Well we're suppose to be the land of opportunity so....

How many other countries in the world are as "prosperous" as we are?

You mean were.

I'm thinking that the America of old...the prosperous one...is gone, dead and buried. It's been replaced by the new America w/ the ultra-rich and greedy on one side and the ever-increasing poor on the other.

I'm on the fence with the immigration/amnesty thing. My heart says 'in the name of compassion you can stay'. My head says 'you're illegal, you cost the system money, you need to go "home" and make things right there'.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2012, 03:10:26 PM »
Not really. I learned a little bit about this when I was trying to move to Spain last year and earlier this year.

Sure we can come and go (MOSTLY) as we please, but we sure can't stay anywhere we please for as long as we please. Other countries have rules, just like we do... but they enforce theirs without compromise. Other countries are a lot stricter about visitors and immigration than the US is.

You know what, I wasn't looking at it from the other country's POV.  Thanks for that.

Other country: Sure, come on over. Hang out for awhile. Spend your money...






























..then GET. OUT!!!  :D :D
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2012, 03:16:37 PM »
You mean were.

I'm thinking that the America of old...the prosperous one...is gone, dead and buried. It's been replaced by the new America w/ the ultra-rich and greedy on one side and the ever-increasing poor on the other.

I'm on the fence with the immigration/amnesty thing. My heart says 'in the name of compassion you can stay'. My head says 'you're illegal, you cost the system money, you need to go "home" and make things right there'.

THIS.

THISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS SSSSSSS.

All the way.
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Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2012, 03:17:07 PM »
You know what, I wasn't looking at it from the other country's POV.  Thanks for that.

Other country: Sure, come on over. Hang out for awhile. Spend your money...






























..then GET. OUT!!!  :D :D

Exactly. LOL
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2012, 03:18:21 PM »
You mean were.

I'm thinking that the America of old...the prosperous one...is gone, dead and buried. It's been replaced by the new America w/ the ultra-rich and greedy on one side and the ever-increasing poor on the other.

I'm on the fence with the immigration/amnesty thing. My heart says 'in the name of compassion you can stay'. My head says 'you're illegal, you cost the system money, you need to go "home" and make things right there'.

Yea, that's about the size of it, I believe.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2012, 03:22:29 PM »
Well we are the ones whose harbor says give me your poor huddled masses... Of course that was directed to people from the east, not the south.  And my understanding is its not as easy as all that to come up in Mexico.  You can't just up and replant yourself in a better area. It's not an environment where anybody can work their way up like it is here.  Immigrants prove to us all the time that you can come here with nothing and work hard and build a decent life. It's not so in other countries, we're just used to that being the case because we live here. 

I know plenty of Mexicans who love Mexico/El Salvador and are only here because they had no other way to improve their state of affairs.  Do you think people risk their lives to come here and be treated like this because it's fun?   If the tables were turned, many of us would do the same. 

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2012, 03:31:23 PM »
Well we are the ones whose harbor says give me your poor huddled masses... Of course that was directed to people from the east, not the south.  And my understanding is its not as easy as all that to come up in Mexico.  You can't just up and replant yourself in a better area. It's not an environment where anybody can work their way up like it is here.  Immigrants prove to us all the time that you can come here with nothing and work hard and build a decent life. It's not so in other countries, we're just used to that being the case because we live here. 

I know plenty of Mexicans who love Mexico/El Salvador and are only here because they had no other way to improve their state of affairs.  Do you think people risk their lives to come here and be treated like this because it's fun?   If the tables were turned, many of us would do the same. 

I agree.

As for the rest, I'm comfortable taking your word for it because you work in that field and I don't. I don't know anything about Mexico. :-\

Oh, but one thing that just crossed my mind... sure you can come here with nothing and make something out of your life, but you're cutting a lot of illegal corners to do it. You're not paying taxes, you're stealing an education, you're not paying for healthcare... and probably more stuff that I'm not considering.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2012, 03:36:56 PM »
I think a lot of them would gladly contribute if we let them.  But therein lies the problem.  No one wants to allow that.  Suddenly income is countable and trackable and they have to answer to big brother like the rest of us.  But then that means they have a voice, too, and many Americans don't want that. 

Offline LaylaMonroe

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2012, 03:44:07 PM »
I think a lot of them would gladly contribute if we let them.  But therein lies the problem.  No one wants to allow that.  Suddenly income is countable and trackable and they have to answer to big brother like the rest of us.  But then that means they have a voice, too, and many Americans don't want that. 

Have you considered the ramifications of us letting them? Making it legal for them to come over with no regard for border laws, visa rules, immigration laws, etc? I mean, there is no doubt in my mind that many (if not most) illegal immigrants would contribute to American society if they were allowed to. Most of them are here because they're hungry, and hungry people work harder and stay focused.

I don't know if it's a matter of no one wanting to let them contribute as much it is a feasibility issue. How reasonable is it to let 11-12 million people who are here illegally become legally employed?
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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2012, 04:07:37 PM »
You mean were.

I'm thinking that the America of old...the prosperous one...is gone, dead and buried. It's been replaced by the new America w/ the ultra-rich and greedy on one side and the ever-increasing poor on the other.

I'm on the fence with the immigration/amnesty thing. My heart says 'in the name of compassion you can stay'. My head says 'you're illegal, you cost the system money, you need to go "home" and make things right there'.

Ahhh gotcha! Makes perfect sense. To me it seems like this "new" America has always existed in some dimension. Maybe not as obvious as it is now but in the past? Absolutely!

I understand being on the fence.

Offline nessalynn77

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Re: Obama gives amnesty to the children of illegal immigrants
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2012, 05:09:54 PM »
I'm not talking about making it legal to come, I'm talking about doing something with the otherwise law abiding ones that are here.
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