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Author Topic: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player  (Read 17175 times)

Offline blue_jays

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The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« on: July 18, 2011, 01:38:55 PM »
I get asked this question alot: What is the job of a second keyboard player?

In my experience the job of the second keyboard is to backup the main keyboard player.This maybe through playing horns, synth, strings. They are to fill in the gaps that are left by the main keyboard player who is playing piano or rhodes. The second keyboard player needs to be locked with the main keyboard as well as the rest of the band. If they are not locked what they play can be shear noice. Here are just a couple of thoughts with what the second keyboard players' job is?

I want to know what do you all think of this?
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Offline under13

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2011, 01:44:02 PM »
It would be cool if more 2nd board players would use some sounds other than strings and horns. When you start doing leads and pads etc it takes the music to another level.

Offline 6stringapprentice

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2011, 01:45:55 PM »
Depends on what the main keys is doing and the make up of the band.

The main uses for a second board player seems to be running bass line, padding, or auxiliaries.
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Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2011, 04:16:57 PM »
No doubt, the keyboard player should be padding however when it comes time to soloing the second keys player needs to lay back when the 1st is soloing.
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Offline Ryan T

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2011, 04:28:00 PM »
Personally, I wouldn't look at it like backing but the main player.  I see them as equals, along with drums or any other instrument. Likewise, during soloing one should support the other or not play, depending on what the music calls for. But 2nd player is to add flavor and make more musical sentences, like lines and themes and concepts for orchestration. They enhance the music. If I were asked abt the role, i'd tell someone to check out good aux players.

Offline SirTJ

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2011, 04:31:13 PM »
I hated being the second keyboard player. I had to follow the lead keyboardist and it was just a headache. He played a lot of "altered" chords, so our chords were always clashing. Even the simplest songs became unrecognizable. I was so glad when the church promoted me to lead keyboardist.

Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2011, 08:36:09 PM »
That true sometimes there is no communication involved and it can be a deciding factor in who is in control.
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Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2011, 09:13:35 AM »
Yup SketchMan3

This case in point can go for an instrument. This is a question that a lot of musicians ask and have never found an answer until now. What it comes down to is choosing the right sound for the right moment if you are a second keyboard player, guitar player etc.
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Offline floaded27

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2011, 11:52:16 AM »
Adding in any instrument means each person has to do less. Concept many dont understand which is why the big band concept is poorly executed with many solo musicians. Its kinda like thinking putting a bunch of solo superstars together automatically makes an invincible super team. If they cant adjust its nothing more than a big name mess.

The group i used to play with had an organist and a keyboardist, in addition to a 2nd keyboardist from time to time. And they'd all switch depending on the setting or song. This made it obvious of the roles because u saw that each approached organ, keyboard and 2nd keys differently.

If the song is keyboard led, the organ does what it does, usually swells and fills (but i've even heard some jazz style comping on the organ as well), but the 2nd keys has more versatility by choosing an accompanying sound thats appropriate (EP, Strings, Brass, Synth Pad, etc). Now depending on the song and style of the player depends on what you can do, because I've observed, there are different things that work, even within the SAME song. But it boils down to the concept of less is more. Both players can be going hard playing in every single space and doing runs at every single opportunity. Complement one another, as well as the other musicians in the group.

And if theres a competent bass player, by no means should any of them be doing bass runs!!!
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Offline under13

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2011, 12:15:46 PM »
And if theres a competent bass player, by no means should any of them be doing bass runs!!!

And if there is a competent guitar or keyboard player, by no means should the bass player play chords. :D

Offline 4hisglory

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2011, 12:27:04 PM »
Adding in any instrument means each person has to do less. Concept many dont understand which is why the big band concept is poorly executed with many solo musicians. Its kinda like thinking putting a bunch of solo superstars together automatically makes an invincible super team. If they cant adjust its nothing more than a big name mess.

Yep but what you get is a Hot Ghetto Mess. :)
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Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2011, 08:47:25 PM »
Understandable
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Offline kenlacam

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2011, 10:57:14 AM »
In my situation it is clashing BIG TIME. I play organ, and my style is old-school gospel,while the keyboardist is "contemporary"....no blending, sounds like a hot mess.
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Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 01:38:32 PM »
It happens a lot and these are the issues that are least talked about in music.
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Tiptip357

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2011, 01:34:57 PM »
Adding in any instrument means each person has to do less. Concept many dont understand which is why the big band concept is poorly executed with many solo musicians. Its kinda like thinking putting a bunch of solo superstars together automatically makes an invincible super team. If they cant adjust its nothing more than a big name mess.

Yes!!! I couldn't stand being with a group of musicians who didn't like to blend. I couldn't stand when every musician tried to show their best moves and the song because to busy.  I couldn't stand when everyone tried to be heard above all others and in the end, you hear noise, and now, you can't tell what song is playing or hear the singers.  Those who have played with me, know that I won't play on top of mess, just to be heard.  I will gracefully bow out... :)

I hated being the second keyboard player. I had to follow the lead keyboardist and it was just a headache. He played a lot of "altered" chords, so our chords were always clashing. Even the simplest songs became unrecognizable. I was so glad when the church promoted me to lead keyboardist.

Same thing has happened to me  :D :D :D I just didn't like 2nd keys....At.ALL!!! (still don't :D)
I'm lead musician, now, but I'm working with one of my teens on keyboard who have come a long way. Trying to get her out more, so sometimes, I'll tell her to take lead.

Offline jgause2

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2011, 03:49:27 PM »
This is interesting information to know.  I have been teaching our bass player the keyboard, in hopes that he could assist as well, but never understood how the two-keyboard concept really worked, being that I've always been a solo musician.
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Tiptip357

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2011, 04:20:35 PM »
Schweet! Thanks, Sketch! I'll check it out as soon I get home.  :)

Offline blue_jays

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2011, 08:10:19 PM »
This has been a very interesting topic that was started. I was surprised to see so many different comments and perpectives. How about we take this a little further now that we know what the seconf keyboardist job is what instruments do you think would be suitable?

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Offline raegenius

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2011, 07:16:56 PM »
Now, this is cool. Hillsong uploaded a series of videos from their CD "God Is Able" that allows you to check out each instrument and see what they're doing. Here's the link for the Keys Lead of each song.
God is Able - Keys Lead Tracks

You just click on a song to see check it out, and while watching a video, you can click on any of the instruments and it will switch to a video emphasizing that instrument, continuing on from where you stopped.

Pretty cool. Admittedly, this is a CCM example of keyboards working together, but I think one could learn a little from studying these. Most of the keyboard parts are pretty simple, though, and mostly just filling in the space for the guitars.



That is really cool. Wow!!
Just listen!

Offline PianoWizard

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Re: The Job of A Second Keyboard Player
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2011, 10:08:35 PM »
Hi "SketchMan3"....

....Those set of videos are simply amazing. There's something for everyone, they've really done a great job with the videos. You able to view any section of the song with any instrument.

I agree most of the keyboard parts are pretty simple but there's certainly some space for those who want to learn this style. Thanks for sharing.

PianoWiz...
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