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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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What if
« on: June 13, 2011, 11:52:27 AM »
Here is my first "go" at starting a thread.  Thanks in advance for your input.

What if we only got to use positions based on what we were ACTUALLY/ACTIVELY DOING in the church?  Would you need to adjust your position/title? 

Do you ACTUALLY understand what your position or title says about what your function is suppose to be in the church? 

Example:  The "praise and worship leader" who actually stays up much of the night praying for the church, and who can discern what's actually going on in the body they serve in...but is only Sis or Bro So-in-So, while the intercessors only sit on the front row with prayer shawls on.  Hummm? 


So....GO! 
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2011, 11:55:54 AM »
I think that's a great idea.  I think the title shouldn't be bestowed until a person has demonstrated that they are active and consistent in that area of ministry.  The title says that I am a veteran, proven __________, and you can be called upon to operate in that area any time it is needed.  I have learned how to be stable despite my emotions and the other various hindrances so that I am an example to others who are learning to operate in this particular area.  Anything short of that, IMO, is undeserving of the title.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: What if
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2011, 11:56:29 AM »
Am I understanding your example to be one where the P&W leader is actully doing the job of the intercessors? ?/?

OT: I believe that I am serving where God would have me to serve.  Additionally, I believe that God is growing in my particular area (p&w) while growing me in the other area in which I serve (media).
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2011, 11:57:17 AM »
Quote from: sjonathan02 on June 13, 2011, 11:56:29 AM
Am I understanding your example to be one where the P&W leader is actully doing the job of the intercessors? ?/?

Yes, exactly.
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Offline sjonathan02

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Re: What if
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2011, 11:59:45 AM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 11:57:17 AM
Yes, exactly.
Oh, good. Thought I was misreading--again.  :-\ :D
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2011, 12:03:53 PM »
Quote from: nessalynn77 on June 13, 2011, 11:55:54 AM
I think that's a great idea.  I think the title shouldn't be bestowed until a person has demonstrated that they are active and consistent in that area of ministry.  The title says that I am a veteran, proven __________, and you can be called upon to operate in that area any time it is needed.  I have learned how to be stable despite my emotions and the other various hindrances so that I am an example to others who are learning to operate in this particular area.  Anything short of that, IMO, is undeserving of the title.

Here is the difference!!!  See, many titles were/are given because one has professed a CALL into the area of ministry/service...not that they have PROVEN that they are called to be one.  The KNOWLEDGE of a call is NOT the same as operating in it.  This may be why so many are handed out.  If you SAY you are called, you can easily find someone who is there to "help you" to become (only in title usually) what you say you are called to do- complete with paper work and a nice robe (a ceremony too it you have enough money).  :)
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2011, 12:12:34 PM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 12:03:53 PM
Here is the difference!!!  See, many titles were/are given because one has professed a CALL into the area of ministry/service...not that they have PROVEN that they are called to be one.  The KNOWLEDGE of a call is NOT the same as operating in it.  This may be why so many are handed out.  If you SAY you are called, you can easily find someone who is there to "help you" to become (only in title usually) what you say you are called to do- complete with paper work and a nice robe (a ceremony too it you have enough money).  :)
So true.  I think the title should all but be a foregone conclusion of what you've demonstrated.  My licensing has been delayed a number of years for various reasons, but God knew what he was doing.  I wasn't ready.
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2011, 12:18:00 PM »
Quote from: nessalynn77 on June 13, 2011, 12:12:34 PM
So true.  I think the title should all but be a foregone conclusion of what you've demonstrated.  My licensing has been delayed a number of years for various reasons, but God knew what he was doing.  I wasn't ready.

Honestly, many have "laid hands suddenly" on MANY!!! (1 Tim. 5:22). 
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2011, 12:19:58 PM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 12:18:00 PM
Honestly, many have "laid hands suddenly" on MANY!!! (1 Tim. 5:22). 
Yep, resulting in a lot of preventable shipwrecks...
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Offline THE WOLFMAN

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Re: What if
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2011, 12:31:02 PM »
Quote from: nessalynn77 on June 13, 2011, 12:19:58 PM
Yep, resulting in a lot of preventable shipwrecks...

chile, dont use the term "wreck", lol
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2011, 12:32:10 PM »
Quote from: nessalynn77 on June 13, 2011, 12:19:58 PM
Yep, resulting in a lot of preventable shipwrecks...


Yes, but here is the thing...when we examine examples of Biblical callings, the Lord called them to be a (let's say) Prophet...then they did the work of the Prophet, but never did you see them actually "proving" that they were called.  They simply did the work.

What are your thoughts about this.  Jeremiah was clearly NOT ready, but he was called a Prophet, and then you see him giving the word of the Lord as a Prophet of God.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2011, 12:48:39 PM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 12:32:10 PM

Yes, but here is the thing...when we examine examples of Biblical callings, the Lord called them to be a (let's say) Prophet...then they did the work of the Prophet, but never did you see them actually "proving" that they were called.  They simply did the work.

What are your thoughts about this.  Jeremiah was clearly NOT ready, but he was called a Prophet, and then you see him giving the word of the Lord as a Prophet of God.
Hmmm... true.  God and man are so different.  All God requires is your obedience, and if he calls you he already knows that you've been equipped for everything he's asked you to do, even if it is not apparent at the outset. 

Maybe with men ordaining and appointing men, it's not always led by God as much as it was in times past.  Now it's a networking, political move, instead God giving the leader to appoint someone.
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2011, 12:54:10 PM »
Quote from: nessalynn77 on June 13, 2011, 12:48:39 PM
Hmmm... true.  God and man are so different.  All God requires is your obedience, and if he calls you he already knows that you've been equipped for everything he's asked you to do, even if it is not apparent at the outset. 

Maybe with men ordaining and appointing men, it's not always led by God as much as it was in times past.  Now it's a networking, political move, instead God giving the leader to appoint someone.

I agree.  Then what would be the standard for those who are in position to elevate, ordain, license...etc.  I've seen people slip through the cracks with even the most rigid standards...but I'm always willing to re-evaluate the way we do things. 
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Offline Hasmonean1

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Re: What if
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2011, 01:01:07 PM »
Often times in the bible the title followed the person rather than the person following the title.

Examples would be Luke the physician rather than Dr. Luke.

Philip the Evangelist

Paul, an apostle Jesus Christ

Miriam the prophetess

Deborah, a prophetess

etc

It has been said that "the gift will make room for you".
The question is, who are we?  If we do the work set before us in the name of  Yeshua with all our heart, soul, and might, then they shall know we are of Him and call us whatsoever, chiefly  a Child of God.
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2011, 01:03:12 PM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 12:54:10 PM
I agree.  Then what would be the standard for those who are in position to elevate, ordain, license...etc.  I've seen people slip through the cracks with even the most rigid standards...but I'm always willing to re-evaluate the way we do things. 
I'm not sure now.  Your questions have got me thinking.  Judas was ok'd to be a disciple so God lets people through the cracks for a purpose, even if their motives are not right.  Paul had people preaching who just wanted to outdo him, but he was encouraged by the fact that the gospel was still being carried to the world... maybe it's not as big a deal as I thought.  The main thing that bothers me is that people are ordained by the church and then misrepresent the church to the world, and we all look bad for it.

I also wonder how far a person should go if they feel the call?  God has really been dealing with me with some ideas for outreach, and I've had the brakes on waiting out this "licensing" process.  But lately God has really been pushing me to get this going in a real intentional way. 

I'm blessed because, as I discussed it with my pastor, I pretty much got a green light, which makes me think I should've been moving out under the covering and advisement of my leader instead of worrying about some piece of paper that really only confirms what God has already said.
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Offline phbrown

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Re: What if
« Reply #15 on: June 13, 2011, 02:33:11 PM »
Quote from: Hasmonean1 on June 13, 2011, 01:01:07 PM
Often times in the bible the title followed the person rather than the person following the title.

Examples would be Luke the physician rather than Dr. Luke.

Philip the Evangelist

Paul, an apostle Jesus Christ

Miriam the prophetess

Deborah, a prophetess

etc

It has been said that "the gift will make room for you".
The question is, who are we?  If we do the work set before us in the name of  Yeshua with all our heart, soul, and might, then they shall know we are of Him and call us whatsoever, chiefly  a Child of God.

Hasmo,

Do you think the reason the title followed the name is because of the translation?
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Offline Arkhams Finest

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Re: What if
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2011, 02:42:16 PM »
Quote from: THE WOLFMAN on June 13, 2011, 12:31:02 PM
chile, dont use the term "wreck", lol

 :D
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2011, 03:20:40 PM »
Quote from: Arkhams Finest on June 13, 2011, 02:42:16 PM
:D
Yeah, I forgot to reply, but I LOL'd at that one, too.
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Offline MicrophoneCheck

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Re: What if
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2011, 05:09:07 PM »
?  Guess ya had to be there?
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Offline nessalynn77

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Re: What if
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2011, 05:14:32 PM »
Quote from: MicrophoneCheck on June 13, 2011, 05:09:07 PM
?  Guess ya had to be there?
LOL, he's referring to that Creflo Dollar clip where CD keeps saying Bishop Long had a "wreck"... He says "wreck" like 50 times in that clip. 

How come if you have a wreck, you want the pastor to help you, but if he has a wreck, we can't forgive his wreck?  Anybody can have a wreck...  wreck, wreck, wreck, wreck, wreck...
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