Order of Worship.....is it time to let it go?

[MicrophoneCheck]

It's a simple way of saying one agrees with the person quoted.

Okay, thanks!!!

[blyempowered]

For me its about the disconnect between scripure and reality plus I'm not the type that wants to do something just to do it. I want to understand why I do what I do, even if I continue doing it.

[MicrophoneCheck]

For me its about the disconnect between scripure and reality plus I'm not the type that wants to do something just to do it. I want to understand why I do what I do, even if I continue doing it.

So maybe we should start a discussion called:

Why do we do _________________ as a part of our worship? 

Just an idea.   

For example:
WE PRAY TOGETHER ALOUD because
In the Bible we read, "They lifted up their voice to God with one accord."-Acts 4:24
WE LIFT OUR HANDS IN PRAISE because
In the Bible we read, "Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the Lord."-Psalm 134:2
WE SING WITH ALL HEARTS because
In the Bible we read, "Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise."-Psalm 98:4
WE PLAY MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS because
In the Bible we read, "And all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments."-II Samuel 6:5
WE CLAP AND SHOUT UNTO GOD because
In the Bible we read, "O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph."-Psalm 47:1
WE DANCE BEFORE THE LORD because
In the bible we read, "Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs."-Psalm 150:4
WE TESTIFY PUBLICLY because
In the bible we read, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee."-Psalm 22:22
WE ANOINT WITH OIL FOR DIVINE HEALING because
In the Bible we read, "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elder of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."-James 5:14
WE ALLOW THE OPERATION OF THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS because
In the Bible we read, "When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation."-I Corinthians 14:26
*Taken from the Word Aflame Tract "The Way We Worship" #6602

[Fenix]

^^^

Knows his/her Word.

[MicrophoneCheck]

^^^

Knows his/her Word.

Striving to.  I also know where to find a lot of stuff on the internet, like bible studies...etc.

[phbrown]

(majoring in the minors here)

Why do we have anniversary programs?

Why is there a steeple on the church?

Why do people call it Bishop Long's church and not New Birth (or whatever the name is)?

Why do we sit in pews?

Why are there candles on the communion table when we have electric lights?

How come only certain people are allowed in the pulpit?

Why do the deacons lead devotion?

Why are praise and worship songs so emotional?

Why do we have multiple offerings or ask people to give certain amounts?

[blyempowered]

So maybe we should start a discussion called:

Why do we do _________________ as a part of our worship? 

Just an idea.   

For example:
WE PRAY TOGETHER ALOUD because
In the Bible we read, "They lifted up their voice to God with one accord."-Acts 4:24
WE LIFT OUR HANDS IN PRAISE because
In the Bible we read, "Lift up your hands in the sanctuary, and bless the Lord."-Psalm 134:2
WE SING WITH ALL HEARTS because
In the Bible we read, "Make a joyful noise unto the LORD, all the earth: make a loud noise, and rejoice, and sing praise."-Psalm 98:4
WE PLAY MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS because
In the Bible we read, "And all the house of Israel played before the LORD on all manner of instruments."-II Samuel 6:5
WE CLAP AND SHOUT UNTO GOD because
In the Bible we read, "O clap your hands, all ye people; shout unto God with the voice of triumph."-Psalm 47:1
WE DANCE BEFORE THE LORD because
In the bible we read, "Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs."-Psalm 150:4
WE TESTIFY PUBLICLY because
In the bible we read, "I will declare thy name unto my brethren; in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee."-Psalm 22:22
WE ANOINT WITH OIL FOR DIVINE HEALING because
In the Bible we read, "Is any sick among you? let him call for the elder of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord."-James 5:14
WE ALLOW THE OPERATION OF THE SPIRITUAL GIFTS because
In the Bible we read, "When ye come together, every one of you hath a psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation."-I Corinthians 14:26
*Taken from the Word Aflame Tract "The Way We Worship" #6602

Ahhh but the author of the book we're reading argues that we cannot use the Old Testament to justify certain practices. He believes that the New Testament church should be ran as the New Testament (post Jesus resurrection) has it. Your thoughts? Btw, this a very conflicting idea for me.

[phbrown]

Ahhh but the author of the book we're reading argues that we cannot use the Old Testament to justify certain practices. He believes that the New Testament church should be ran as the New Testament (post Jesus resurrection) has it. Your thoughts? Btw, this a very conflicting idea for me.

this is most defintly a new thread ....

[MicrophoneCheck]

Ahhh but the author of the book we're reading argues that we cannot use the Old Testament to justify certain practices. He believes that the New Testament church should be ran as the New Testament (post Jesus resurrection) has it. Your thoughts? Btw, this a very conflicting idea for me.

I disagree, simply because we don't just throw out the law entirely.  Of course Christians have debated for years which parts we are to keep and observe verses which parts are just for the history or symbolic interpretations...and it would give me a headache if I delve the depths of that.  I'd rather defend a thesis statement.   

However, I believe our worship should incorporate both the old and new.  If the new does not amend it (show us a more excellent way) I feel its still relevant for us to use as our standard.  Of course I do realize that this is very general. 

[blyempowered]

this is most defintly a new thread ....

Yep!

Here's my thing and I could be wrong: I just have a problem seeing how the Bible (particularly the new testament) has the church and yet in reality it's so far off. Again, it just feels like a disconnect in the name of "personal preference." So what is the purpose of the Bible as it pertains to the church? I still believe methodology changes over time (culture, environment, etc) but is every modern church practice rooted in the principles of Christ? I doubt it. When we look at certain practices like the heavy emphasis on titles and the "elitist" attitude among many leaders in the church, is that Christ like? I would say it's not.

When we look at the new testament church we see a community of believers in which everyone counted. But in today's church, it's more of a spectator attitude. Is that the way the church is suppose to be? Bottomline: I'm just having a hard time with the disconnect between the Bible and reality. I feel like if the Bible has the church being one way it should be that way, in principle that is.

Idk, I've been confused for about 5 years but I feel like the book puts certain things in perspective. Does this mean I'm going to change everything I do in church and how I feel about church? No, but it shows me how we got to where we're at today. At the end of the day, do certain things matter? Not really, but those things shouldn't go against the principles of Christ.

[blyempowered]

I disagree, simply because we don't just throw out the law entirely.  Of course Christians have debated for years which parts we are to keep and observe verses which parts are just for the history or symbolic interpretations...and it would give me a headache if I delve the depths of that.  I'd rather defend a thesis statement.   

However, I believe our worship should incorporate both the old and new.  If the new does not amend it (show us a more excellent way) I feel its still relevant for us to use as our standard.  Of course I do realize that this is very general.

Very interesting. 

[LaylaMonroe]

I agree with Jonathan.

[blyempowered]

I agree with Jonathan.

I do too!

[MicrophoneCheck]

Yep!

Here's my thing and I could be wrong: I just have a problem seeing how the Bible (particularly the new testament) has the church and yet in reality it's so far off. Again, it just feels like a disconnect in the name of "personal preference." So what is the purpose of the Bible as it pertains to the church? I still believe methodology changes over time (culture, environment, etc) but is every modern church practice rooted in the principles of Christ? I doubt it. When we look at certain practices like the heavy emphasis on titles and the "elitist" attitude among many leaders in the church, is that Christ like? I would say it's not.

When we look at the new testament church we see a community of believers in which everyone counted. But in today's church, it's more of a spectator attitude. Is that the way the church is suppose to be? Bottomline: I'm just having a hard time with the disconnect between the Bible and reality. I feel like if the Bible has the church being one way it should be that way, in principle that is.

Idk, I've been confused for about 5 years but I feel like the book puts certain things in perspective. Does this mean I'm going to change everything I do in church and how I feel about church? No, but it shows me how we got to where we're at today. At the end of the day, do certain things matter? Not really, but those things shouldn't go against the principles of Christ.

I sometimes wonder about the NT being the pattern for the church of the last days. The church then was in its infancy. And, its easy to see that the NT church had more than its share of problems... it resembled, in many ways, well, the church of today. I don't know if God is pleased with us aspiring to be the "church of yesterday". But, maybe He wants us to be "the Church of tomorrow", like what Paul envisioned in Eph. 5:27.

The NT church was the foundation, but it was just a start of something great, not a final and complete structure.  IMO (maybe) still thinking about that one.

[MicrophoneCheck]

I do too!

Can someone quote what johnathan said...I got lost with what you all are agreeing with.

[blyempowered]

I sometimes wonder about the NT being the pattern for the church of the last days. The church then was in its infancy. And, its easy to see that the NT church had more than its share of problems... it resembled, in many ways, well, the church of today. I don't know if God is pleased with us aspiring to be the "church of yesterday". But, maybe He wants us to be "the Church of tomorrow", like what Paul envisioned in Eph. 5:27.

The NT church was the foundation, but it was just a start of something great, not a final and complete structure.  IMO (maybe) still thinking about that one.

Ahhh and that's the root of the debate....is the NT church the foundation or the blueprint?....WOW!

Right now (and my opinion is subject to change upon further review) I believe the NT church is the blueprint in principle.

[MicrophoneCheck]

Ahhh and that's the root of the debate....is the NT church the foundation or the blueprint?....WOW!

Right now (and my opinion is subject to change upon further review) I believe the NT church is the blueprint in principle.

I could prob. find support for both schools of thought.  I'm still inclined to believe in the "Apostolic" model.  I mean...a message is less likely to get misinterpreted when the messenger was closer to the one giving the message.  However, they had their schools of thought, problems, divisions, I mean even the very people that hung out PERSONALLY with Jesus came away from the experience with different accounts of the SAME story. Hum....

[blyempowered]

I could prob. find support for both schools of thought.  I'm still inclined to believe in the "Apostolic" model.  I mean...a message is less likely to get misinterpreted when the messenger was closer to the one giving the message.  However, they had their schools of thought, problems, divisions, I mean even the very people that hung out PERSONALLY with Jesus came away from the experience with different accounts of the SAME story. Hum....

Right!

[Hasmonean1]

Ahhh and that's the root of the debate....is the NT church the foundation or the blueprint?....WOW!

Right now (and my opinion is subject to change upon further review) I believe the NT church is the blueprint in principle.

Might these scriptures be in reference to the Church?

Ephesians 2 :

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

[blyempowered]

Might these scriptures be in reference to the Church?

Ephesians 2 :

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Maybe....