Order of Worship.....is it time to let it go?

[sjonathan02]

Trick question.   
Case in point, what's today called? 
Do you know that the months and the days of the week were named after pagan gods? 
So when you say THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY, are you thanking the gods for the day named after a pagan god?

See how crazy this can get?

Actually, I'm thanking God for the day, itself, as opposed to it's name.  The end of the work week could be called 'klipelztim' day and I'd thank God for making it to 'klipelztim' (pronounced 'klip-el-skim).

[Fenix]

So the origin of something doesn't matter as long as it works and is effective?

I don't think that is what he is saying. I interpret it as meaning we shouldn't go over-board with the whole pagan roots thing.

[MicrophoneCheck]

I don't think that is what he is saying. I interpret it as meaning we shouldn't go over-board with the whole pagan roots thing.

  EGG-ZACT-LAY

[LaylaMonroe]

I'm kinda LOLing and reminding myself not to get too deep in this one.

Anyway, what exactly is going overboard? When are pagan rooted practices ok and when are they not? It's ok as long as it doesn't affect what we know as church. Pretty much, I'm sure that's what we're all saying here. *shrugandsmile*

[MicrophoneCheck]

I'm kinda LOLing and reminding myself not to get too deep in this one.

Anyway, what exactly is going overboard? When are pagan rooted practices ok and when are they not? It's ok as long as it doesn't affect what we know as church. Pretty much, I'm sure that's what we're all saying here. *shrugandsmile*

No, not just church, our present culture and way of life. 
What's today called again?  OOOOOPS!!!! PAGAN!!!!

Take for example, the simple wedding ring. This has profound Pagan origins yet is considered an essential part of the wedding ceremony by many Christians.

For other examples:
http://www.seiyaku.com/customs/pagan-symbols.html

[nessalynn77]

And I think that's backed up by the Word of God.  When Paul addresses things offered to idols, he makes the point that the thing offered to idols in itself poses no hazard to christians, after all it is God who made it.  Paul basically said God doesn't have a problem with it, but Christians might... ain't that the truth.  We could all be happily serving God and living by the Word, if it wasn't for other Christians coming on the scene to analyze and judge whether you are actually doing what you do in a way that's acceptable to God (except they are really saying they want you to be acceptable to "them"). 

I understand Paul addressed not providing and occasion for your brother or sister who may be weak to stumble, but that isn't the case here.  People are criticizing everything and nothing is acceptable.  It's not a matter of doing it the way the bible says, they are actually adding stuff that the bible doesn't say and stating that in "their" opinion, people should do it "their" way.  It smacks of Pharisee...  Why do folks cry "legalistic" when the church does this same thing, but they wanna "legalistically" sway the church to fitting their mold?

[Hasmonean1]

So the origin of something doesn't matter as long as it works and is effective?

The bible addresses things with a pagan origin and its power, which is NONE ( to some).

1 Corinthians 8

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Romans 14..........concluded by 22 & 23

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The central theme of those scriptures is Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
It seems that some have been questioning their faith, have doubts, or are confused in some ways.  This probably has no effect on stronger saints.  However, can't you see this being a problem for those who are not as strong?  Who is the "author of confusion"?  Who introduces doubt to put a strain on our faith?  Who proposes question with intent on tripping us up? (Genesis 3:1)

Let US BE fully persuaded or pray the Lord gets US to the point of being fully persuaded.

[blyempowered]

That's personal preference, which is basically the gospel of the last few decades. If it works it's fine. Idk....

[MicrophoneCheck]

The bible addresses things with a pagan origin and its power, which is NONE ( to some).

1 Corinthians 8

1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.

2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.

3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.

4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.

5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)

6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.

8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;

11 And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died?

12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

Romans 14..........concluded by 22 & 23

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

The central theme of those scriptures is Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
It seems that some have been questioning their faith, have doubts, or are confused in some ways.  This probably has no effect on stronger saints.  However, can't you see this being a problem for those who are not as strong?  Who is the "author of confusion"?  Who introduces doubt to put a strain on our faith?  Who proposes question with intent on tripping us up? (Genesis 3:1)

Let US BE fully persuaded or pray the Lord gets US to the point of being fully persuaded.

HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM WELL SAID!!! AMEN, I have my answer.

[blyempowered]

So to jump ship if that's the case no one has the right to say one church practice is right or wrong over another....am I correct?

I say this still believing that 75% of what happens in church is manmade and not rooted in scripture. Ill share more in just a moment.

[MicrophoneCheck]

That's personal preference, which is basically the gospel of the last few decades. If it works it's fine. Idk....

It is personal...Jesus is our personal Lord and Savior is He not?  We must PERSONALLY know for ourselves.  Anyway...I pray that the Lord leads you into ALL truth (and that's my PERSONAL prayer for myself too lol)   

[sjonathan02]

So to jump ship if that's the case no one has the right to say one church practice is right or wrong over another....am I correct?

I say this still believing that 75% of what happens in church is manmade and not rooted in scripture. Ill share more in just a moment.

I think you're good, right here. 

[sjonathan02]

The central theme of those scriptures is Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
It seems that some have been questioning their faith, have doubts, or are confused in some ways.  This probably has no effect on stronger saints.  However, can't you see this being a problem for those who are not as strong?  Who is the "author of confusion"?  Who introduces doubt to put a strain on our faith?  Who proposes question with intent on tripping us up? (Genesis 3:1)

Let US BE fully persuaded or pray the Lord gets US to the point of being fully persuaded.

I don't think it's the first one; I would need to know the subject of the doubts you mention to completely agree or disagree with you--suffice it to say, I believe there are doubts about the way things are done in church being scriptural; I also believe that may be where some confusion comes in as to what is and is not ok since it's ALL pagan.


At the end of the day, I believe we all desire to be as close to Him as possible both in private and in corporate worship.  No one is trying to be divisive or cause confusion or anything like that at. all.

I believe that is what will help to diminish the foolishness we see in MANY churches and draw the unbeliever to the Lord. 

Lastly, I believe this, what we're doing in this thread, the book club thread, as well as LGM, is what was done in the first century churches.  Rightly dividing the Word--iron sharpening iron.



BTJM.

[Fenix]

Its like Mme Rue said, i haven't read the book so i don't really understand where you are coming from or basing your beliefs, Churchy.

When i do read the book, i bet i will understand more.

[blyempowered]

Even before reading the book I felt like a good majority of what happens in church is not scriptually based. Brb.

[MicrophoneCheck]

To me it goes deeper than just the root of something (and how can you get deeper than the root...I know).  But  I would have to ask...what prompted you to ask the questions you are asking?  Like what made you go and research why we use a pulpit, or why the choirs wear robes?  Was it that you just had a tug from the Holy Spirit, or did you find it while just doing research about something else?  What or who caused you to start questioning everything? 

[phbrown]

I don't think it's the first one; I would need to know the subject of the doubts you mention to completely agree or disagree with you--suffice it to say, I believe there are doubts about the way things are done in church being scriptural; I also believe that may be where some confusion comes in as to what is and is not ok since it's ALL pagan.


At the end of the day, I believe we all desire to be as close to Him as possible both in private and in corporate worship.  No one is trying to be divisive or cause confusion or anything like that at. all.

I believe that is what will help to diminish the foolishness we see in MANY churches and draw the unbeliever to the Lord. 

Lastly, I believe this, what we're doing in this thread, the book club thread, as well as LGM, is what was done in the first century churches.  Rightly dividing the Word--iron sharpening iron.



BTJM.

+1

[MicrophoneCheck]

+1

what does +1 mean...I've seen it used before

[sjonathan02]

what does +1 mean...I've seen it used before

It's a simple way of saying one agrees with the person quoted.

[phbrown]

what does +1 mean...I've seen it used before

ditto

or add one more person's name to that above post

sjon + phbrown .... cause I would've said it that way myself

(normally though I'm not as eloquent or succinct so I just say +1 instead of repeating what someone else said)