Order of Worship.....is it time to let it go?

[blyempowered]

Its an issue according to the author because it's not biblically based. His view is that everything should be done according to the New Testament in the New Testament church.

[MicrophoneCheck]

Its an issue according to the author because it's not biblically based. His view is that everything should be done according to the New Testament in the New Testament church.

Like Nessa said, if its an effective tool, then why not?  They did not have the internet either but hey!  SMH, somethings are just no brainers to me.

[nessalynn77]

Its an issue according to the author because it's not biblically based. His view is that everything should be done according to the New Testament in the New Testament church.

Do you guys see how this is silly?  The bible doesn't even give us enough to go on of the NT church... it does not give what their actual order of service was or how they went about it.  We can only guess...  What we do have is what IS in the NT and the Holy Spirit to lead us, I believe if you're a leader and you obey the Holy Spirit, you'll be fine.  I have a hard time believing God is confined to one style or order of fellowshipping with the saints.  He made us all too diverse.  But there is only one Spirit who is also very diverse in his operations and manifestations.

[phbrown]

Do you guys see how this is silly? 

Actually yes I do

[blyempowered]

I see what you're saying. I'd highly recommend you get the book to get a more detailed look at what the author is saying. Again, you may not change your perspective but it will definitely challenge it. But as I said I'm hanging on the fence for now.

[MicrophoneCheck]

Do you guys see how this is silly?  The bible doesn't even give us enough to go on of the NT church... it does not give what their actual order of service was or how they went about it.  We can only guess...  What we do have is what IS in the NT and the Holy Spirit to lead us, I believe if you're a leader and you obey the Holy Spirit, you'll be fine.  I have a hard time believing God is confined to one style or order of fellowshipping with the saints.  He made us all too diverse.  But there is only one Spirit who is also very diverse in his operations and manifestations.

And I dont oppose the House Church movement but I do take issue when they claim that they are THE biblical pattern for worship, just like other movements that claim absolute truth found within their doctrine only...etc.  For those that choose this or believe they are called to do this over what we know as traditional worship...then great!  However, I often say that just as there are different types of people, there are different types of church fellowships.  There is not ONE WAY and the rest of us are wrong.  I'm reminded of when the disciples wanted to forbid other disciples from sharing the gospel, just because they were not in their "click."  As LONG AS THE MESSAGE OF THE GOSPEL GETS OUT...why should we get hung up on the format?  To me, its just another division in the body...and we don't need that. 

I find the House Church format to be effective, but personally I prefer TRADITIONAL WORSHIP...and I don't believe that the Father is waving His finger at me simply because I meet in a sanctuary versus a coffee shop, or someone's living room.  IMS

[blyempowered]

Is there any aspect of traditional worship that you'd like to see changed?

[MicrophoneCheck]

Is there any aspect of traditional worship that you'd like to see changed?

Whew!  I don't have the time to tell it all.  lol

[blyempowered]

Lol btw I'm not trying to force anyone to agree with the author. I'm just presenting different viewpoints.

[nessalynn77]

I see what you're saying. I'd highly recommend you get the book to get a more detailed look at what the author is saying. Again, you may not change your perspective but it will definitely challenge it. But as I said I'm hanging on the fence for now.

I just don't see how this is going to be beneficial for me, from what I've seen from the book.  I was leery from jump, and the stuff I've heard so far makes me lean further in that direction.

Granted, I understand that some stuff done in church is simply without understanding.  But some stuff is done because IT WORKS.  *shrug*  To say the order of service came from pagan ritual is a bit of a stretch for me.  I'm sure some pagans did have an order of service, any meeting of more than a handful of people will generally have something similar because IT WORKS.  It keeps everyone from interrupting each other or looking around wondering what is going on.  Since we're reaching out and bringing people in who don't have the Spirit of God, it is necessary to have some natural discernable order.  I don't care how you do it ( on a bulletin, with an MC, everyone knows it from memory), you are going to have some type of structure or you will be limited in what you can accomplish.  Even a house bible study has structure... even if it's just greet each other, pray, read and discuss... is that not an order of service?

[MicrophoneCheck]

Lol btw I'm not trying to force anyone to agree with the author. I'm just presenting different viewpoints.

Understood   Thanks for adding clarity...etc.

[MicrophoneCheck]

I just don't see how this is going to be beneficial for me, from what I've seen from the book.  I was leery from jump, and the stuff I've heard so far makes me lean further in that direction.

Granted, I understand that some stuff done in church is simply without understanding.  But some stuff is done because IT WORKS.  *shrug*  To say the order of service came from pagan ritual is a bit of a stretch for me.  I'm sure some pagans did have an order of service, any meeting of more than a handful of people will generally have something similar because IT WORKS.  It keeps everyone from interrupting each other or looking around wondering what is going on.  Since we're reaching out and bringing people in who don't have the Spirit of God, it is necessary to have some natural discernable order.  I don't care how you do it ( on a bulletin, with an MC, everyone knows it from memory), you are going to have some type of structure or you will be limited in what you can accomplish.  Even a house bible study has structure... even if it's just greet each other, pray, read and discuss... is that not an order of service?

It sure is!  It's an order. 
Okay, I have an example since I've "done" house church.  If you have really talkative "take over" kind of people (and they really mean no harm), it can be a mess.  There is really no established belief, everyone is just free to believe what they want and since its only a group leader..etc. if something is taught that is seriously wrong, you can only "respectfully disagree."  How can we walk together except we agree.  So its a headache in many cases.  That's only ONE problem I could tell you about in the house church set up.

[LaylaMonroe]

All I want to say is that I think that the whole premise of the book would sound silly to all of us being that - in general - we were all taught in the same Protestant traditions. It sounded quite silly to me before I began to read the facts and historical information for myself. And I studied (and continue to study) far beyond the book.

I will say this and then I'm done () after reading the book, you'll either agree that this stuff isn't what God intended for His church, you'll believe that it doesn't matter. But you definitely won't find it silly. It's the true history of the evolution of the church, from what it was to what it is today - and how it got there. How each tradition was introduced. Some you might think actually matter, some not so much. But it all has factual merit.

[sjonathan02]

I just don't see how this is going to be beneficial for me, from what I've seen from the book.  I was leery from jump, and the stuff I've heard so far makes me lean further in that direction.

Granted, I understand that some stuff done in church is simply without understanding.  But some stuff is done because IT WORKS.  *shrug*  To say the order of service came from pagan ritual is a bit of a stretch for me.  I'm sure some pagans did have an order of service, any meeting of more than a handful of people will generally have something similar because IT WORKS.  It keeps everyone from interrupting each other or looking around wondering what is going on.  Since we're reaching out and bringing people in who don't have the Spirit of God, it is necessary to have some natural discernable order.  I don't care how you do it ( on a bulletin, with an MC, everyone knows it from memory), you are going to have some type of structure or you will be limited in what you can accomplish.  Even a house bible study has structure... even if it's just greet each other, pray, read and discuss... is that not an order of service?

It's interesting you say that as I believe I said the same thing in the BC thread.  There's going to be an order of some type that will be the same no matter what.  If memory serves, I also stated that there would be at least one announcement--the next time 'church' would meet. 

[nessalynn77]

It's interesting you say that as I believe I said the same thing in the BC thread.  There's going to be an order of some type that will be the same no matter what.  If memory serves, I also stated that there would be at least one announcement--the next time 'church' would meet. 

LOL, agreed.

[MicrophoneCheck]

All I want to say is that I think that the whole premise of the book would sound silly to all of us being that - in general - we were all taught in the same Protestant traditions. It sounded quite silly to me before I began to read the facts and historical information for myself. And I studied (and continue to study) far beyond the book.

I will say this and then I'm done () after reading the book, you'll either agree that this stuff isn't what God intended for His church, you'll believe that it doesn't matter. But you definitely won't find it silly. It's the true history of the evolution of the church, from what it was to what it is today - and how it got there. How each tradition was introduced. Some you might think actually matter, some not so much. But it all has factual merit.

I believe the author writes the book with a goal in mind and that is to uncover the hidden reasons behind the things we do, thusly concluding that its pagan.  However, the author points out that this book is not to be read as an isolated text and that there are others in a series of research that they have done.  I've read similar pieces...The Harlot Church System by Elizabeth Gardner and other articles of similar content found on sites like this one. http://www.therealchurch.com/articles/the_harlot_church_system_part_1.html

The trace the orgin of many practices, and yes I can see the similarities, however, I'm not sold on the conclusions they make.  If we look to the orgin of ANYTHING we can draw a pagan or wordly root (I had this discussion years ago when Christians I knew just wanted to do away with all the holidays).  I used the example that pretty much everything we do has some type of pagan root to it but it becaomes a matter of the heart after a while. 

[Hasmonean1]

The trace the origin of many practices, and yes I can see the similarities, however, I'm not sold on the conclusions they make.  If we look to the origin of ANYTHING we can draw a pagan or wordly root (I had this discussion years ago when Christians I knew just wanted to do away with all the holidays).  I used the example that pretty much everything we do has some type of pagan root to it but it becomes a matter of the heart after a while.

I agree 100% and that wraps it up for me.  There is a Spirit behind most everything we do.  I've witnessed wordly/secular songs that have been transformed into blessed songs unto the Lord.  By the same token there have been gospel songs that have been turned into a tool for sin. 

Very well stated MicrophoneCheck 1,2  1,2 

[MicrophoneCheck]

I agree 100% and that wraps it up for me.  There is a Spirit behind most everything we do.  I've witnessed wordly/secular songs that have been transformed into blessed songs unto the Lord.  By the same token there have been gospel songs that have been turned into a tool for sin. 

Very well stated MicrophoneCheck 1,2  1,2 

Thanks...I see a typo and the first word is suppose to be "they" not "the" but I think we get the point lol. 

[blyempowered]

So the origin of something doesn't matter as long as it works and is effective?

[MicrophoneCheck]

So the origin of something doesn't matter as long as it works and is effective?

Trick question.   
Case in point, what's today called? 
Do you know that the months and the days of the week were named after pagan gods? 
So when you say THANK GOD ITS FRIDAY, are you thanking the gods for the day named after a pagan god?

See how crazy this can get?