Order of Worship.....is it time to let it go?

[blyempowered]

In an effort to get opinions from those not participating in the book club right now, I want to start this thread on one of the topics we've discussed and get some more opinions.

In the book "Pagan Christianity" the author argues that the order of worship deviates from the New Testament Christianity way of doing worship. The author argues that in the New Testament it was a spontaneous service in which everyone participated (He uses 1 Corinthians 14:26 or so to support his view). He also shows how historically many elements have been added to the worship service over time. According to the author, here are his problems with the order of worship:

1. "The protestant order of worship represses mutual participation and the growth of the Christian community. It puts a choke hold on the functioning of the body of Christ by silencing its members." According to the author, the order of worship does not allow people in the congregation to give a Word, sing a song, etc. Basically, everyone in the congregation must sit and watch.

2.  "Strangles the Headship of Christ." He argues that the service is basically dominated by one person or a couple. It does not allow freedom in Jesus to take place.

3. "The sunday morning service is shamefully boring." He makes the case that services are very predictable and usually run the same way every single week.

4. "Hinders spiritual transformation. It does so because it encourages passivity, it limits functioning and it implies that putting in one hour per week is the key to the victorious Christian life."

So here are my questions:

1. Do you agree or disagree with anything the author is saying? What do you agree or disagree with?

2. Do you see yourself being able to go to a church where there was no "order of worship" and things just flowed?

3. Does bible study, testimony service and small groups fit into "mutual participation"?

4. Does the "order of worship is subject to change upon leading of the Holy Spirit" line on the program fit this "spontaneity" that the author is arguing for?

[T-Block]

All I will say is w/out order there is (potentially) chaos.

[LaylaMonroe]

I don't think it's likely that anyone will ever understand where you're coming from if they haven't read (or otherwise learned) what you've read, Churchy.

If people understand that much of what takes place in the church today has pagan roots, and can trace the secular, carnal and unGodly path some of these practices took to get into the church, they may agree that the order of service should be revisited. If they don't know anything about the history or evolution oF the church, it's very unlikely that they'll be willing (or able) to see it from your perspective. (IMO).

[blyempowered]

All I will say is w/out order there is (potentially) chaos.

True.....

[LaylaMonroe]

T-Block, what you're saying is true. But for the record, an order of service does not bring, foster, or guarantee order. Not at all.

[LaylaMonroe]

That last sentence "and we still got the Word..." See, the folks who are reading this book will probably smile slightly when they read that line.

We are raised/trained to believe that the central part of the service is the Word. But there's really no Biblical support for that.

Not tryna start nothing. Just pointing that out (from the book we're reading). Don't get me wrong. The Word is good and essential. But we (mankind) are the ones who declared that it is essential to every worship gathering and that it should be the focal point of every service.

[sjonathan02]

That last sentence "and we still got the Word..." See, the folks who are reading this book will probably smile slightly when they read that line.

We are raised/trained to believe that the central part of the service is the Word. But there's really no Biblical support for that.

Not tryna start nothing. Just pointing that out (from the book we're reading). Don't get me wrong. The Word is good and essential. But we (mankind) are the ones who declared that it is essential to every worship gathering and that it should be the focal point of every service.

Hmmm....I didn't get that. I got the sermon was/is non-Biblical but not the studying/discussing of the Word.

[chevonee]

I believe that "Order of service" is just there to try to give our services context but I don't think the church will fall apart without it. BTJM *vonneshrug*

[blyempowered]

I believe that "Order of service" is just there to try to give our services context but I don't think the church will fall apart without it. BTJM *vonneshrug*

This

[chevonee]

This

You mean I actually made sense....WOW!!!! LOL!!

[blyempowered]

You mean I actually made sense....WOW!!!! LOL!!

Uh yeah and I also love your avatar!!

[chevonee]

Uh yeah and I also love your avatar!!

Gee thanks bro!

[LaylaMonroe]

Hmmm....I didn't get that. I got the sermon was/is non-Biblical but not the studying/discussing of the Word.

No, I don't think the study/discussion is unBiblical. What I said the authors said is that the word (which today equates to the preached word or sermon) was not the central part of the service. It was either Martin Luther or John Calvin who made it that. My book is downstairs in the car so I can't find the exact pAge/passage right now, but I'm certain it's in there. 100% certain.

@Sketchman, so am I. You would have to read the book to understand what I mean in context.

[T-Block]

I was just saying any kind of order is better than winging it. And I've seen some churches wing it, and it turned out a hot mess. Once the spirit starts moving, then ur order should take a backseat.

I'm almost intrigued to go check out this book you all are reading. Almost.....lol.

[JustBritt]

I'm not....

[LaylaMonroe]

T-Block, it's not the order of worship it's the elements in it. The invocation, scripture reading, songs, hymns, sermon, announcements, altar call, etc. Not the fact that there IS an order, but the stuff that makes up the order. That's what he's saying. He's saying that all the stuff that's part of our worship service today wasn't a part of the NT gathering. 

[phbrown]

That last sentence "and we still got the Word..." See, the folks who are reading this book will probably smile slightly

 

[blyempowered]

I'm not....

*misinterpreting scripture*

Take heed unless you want everything about church you've been raised in challenged...LOL!

[Docdb04]

"The protestant order of worship represses mutual participation and the growth of the Christian community. It puts a choke hold on the functioning of the body of Christ by silencing its members." According to the author, the order of worship does not allow people in the congregation to give a Word, sing a song, etc. Basically, everyone in the congregation must sit and watch.

You can't have everyone in the congregation giving a word (If I am thinking in the same terms as you speak).  That is the problem in the church today.  If it means in the form of testimony, then I retract that last statment.  The problem with testimonies, it's hard to put restrictions on them.  You can't say, "Please keep your testimonies less than 1 minute"  If someone goes over, then do you just shut their mic off?  You will end up causing more problems within the congregation.     

I believe, the order of worship is intended on being corporate.  People sit and watch, because that is what they choose to do.  At the church that I attend, we encourage corporate worship and participation.  This is when the whole “I don’t like that style of music so I am just going to sit here” comes into play.  When people step outside the box and open their mind from thinking that the way they were raised (meaning practices, music, style) is the only (and correct) way to do things, then you will have more corporate worship experiences.

I don't think there is anything wrong with having an order of service.  However, when it becomes predictable and can't change is when it is the problem.

Hope I didn't miss the point, because I didn't read the book.       

[phbrown]

1. "The protestant order of worship represses mutual participation and the growth of the Christian community. It puts a choke hold on the functioning of the body of Christ by silencing its members." According to the author, the order of worship does not allow people in the congregation to give a Word, sing a song, etc. Basically, everyone in the congregation must sit and watch.

2.  "Strangles the Headship of Christ." He argues that the service is basically dominated by one person or a couple. It does not allow freedom in Jesus to take place.

3. "The sunday morning service is shamefully boring." He makes the case that services are very predictable and usually run the same way every single week.

4. "Hinders spiritual transformation. It does so because it encourages passivity, it limits functioning and it implies that putting in one hour per week is the key to the victorious Christian life."

So here are my questions:

1. Do you agree or disagree with anything the author is saying? What do you agree or disagree with?I disagree with it all! The order of worship helps by having the congregation practice singing the same songs week after week. Everyone knows the words. During testimony service everyone has a chance to talk. But do you really want to hear some people talk for more than 5 minutes straight? It is awfully boring and they start talking about red birds and rainbows. The order of service is subject to the Holy spirit and once the Holy spirit has done what it wanted to do we go back to the regualary schedule program so the headship of Christ is not strangled at all.

sunday morning is not boring at all #thatisall

Spirtual transformation is not solely regulated to the sunday worship service. But also all the other days of the week.

2. Do you see yourself being able to go to a church where there was no "order of worship" and things just flowed? Yeah I could, but I believe there would still be an "order of worship" even if it was just Sis. Brown always has a song on her heart every sunday so  you know Sis. Brown is going to sing at least one song if not more. Bro. Jones is going to lead a prayer. Sis Mary going to be at the door to hang up people coats. Bro. Smith is going to encourage a discussion about a particular verse. So even though it may not happen in a particular order those same events will still happen every sunday. Just now you will be wondering which is going to happen next. *shrug*

3. Does bible study, testimony service and small groups fit into "mutual participation"? yes, Lets not forget these same things should be happening at home also with your family & friends.

4. Does the "order of worship is subject to change upon leading of the Holy Spirit" line on the program fit this "spontaneity" that the author is arguing for? In my opinion Yes.