May 2011 DISCUSSION: Pagan Christianity by Frank Viola and George Barna

[phbrown]

Yeah, so although I have plenty to add to the ordination question...

I think I'll wait until tomorrow or a better time. 

Still trying to "feel" my way around this place...took a strange little turn for a moment.

*shrug* Okay



where is everyone at concerning their reading? I know LL said he was a little behind ... I think sjon also said that. Blyempowered has not read chapter 6-9 yet ... is that about right?

I personally just skipped a bunch of pages cause the points were minor to me. i know i shouldn't but oh well i can't help it

[blyempowered]

I read chapter 6 and can summarize that in one sentence....LOL!

[MicrophoneCheck]

I read chapter 6 and can summarize that in one sentence....LOL!

and that is?  lol

[blyempowered]

Let me see how far everyone is then ill reveal....LOL!

[phbrown]

Let me see how far everyone is then ill reveal....LOL!

lol ... some reason I don't think my 1 sentance will be the same as yours LOL but we will see

[LaylaMonroe]

I just finished Ch6, but it wasn't anything I didn't know already. I'll read 7 tonight and finish in time for Thurs. We probably need to proceed without LL. I don't know if he's still in, but I'll ask him.

Idk if I'm going to continue with the discussion. I'll explain once I get home and settled. I'm practicing doing it LL or SJ style - in like 1 or 2 sentences. LOL

[lordluvr]

I'm more than just a little behind...I'm wayyyy behind.  But, as long as I can commit time to read, I'll catch up pretty quickly.  Stick to your schedule, please. 

[blyempowered]

lol ... some reason I don't think my 1 sentance will be the same as yours LOL but we will see

We'll see....LOL!

[blyempowered]

Protocol says it starts tomorrow (6-9), but Bennettcol says I'm starting right now....LOL!

To me, chapter 6 can be summarized in one sentence: If you want to dress up for church fine but don't judge people who choose not to dress up. And I basically agree with that. That's all I gotta say for now....LOL!

[LaylaMonroe]

Ch 6, I thought, was such a major waste of trees.

More tomorrow. Maybe. I'm still deciding.

[blyempowered]

Ch 6, I thought, was such a major waste of trees.

More tomorrow. Maybe. I'm still deciding.

Honestly, I'm kind of in "deciding" mode too as far as continuing the discussion. Idk. We'll see. I just think people have to understand that whether we agree with the author or not, it's just good to see how (based on historical evidence) we got to the point that we got to today. Again, I'm not saying that this book is going to make me forsake everything single thing I've been raised in church to do (partially because of my background, my culture and if I feel like something is relevant or irrelevant). 

[phbrown]

Protocol says it starts tomorrow (6-9), but Bennettcol says I'm starting right now....LOL!

To me, chapter 6 can be summarized in one sentence: If you want to dress up for church fine but don't judge people who choose not to dress up. And I basically agree with that. That's all I gotta say for now....LOL!

LOL, i was going to sum chapter six as

Blah

but I like your sentance better lol

[phbrown]

Hey Sjon, how do you feel about chapter 8, the chapter about Ministers of Music?

hey Rue, have you made it to the chapter about tithing? Doesn't appear to be anything new that hasn't been discussed at length by Hammerock and FuriousStyles


Hey LL, the author quoted a jewish rabbi saying teachers/pastors back in the day worked so they wouldn't need to be paid. Whats your take on paying pastors today?

Hey Bly, How do you think marketing plays into dressing up for church?

Hey MB, have you gotten your book from work yet?!?!?!

[sjonathan02]

Hey Sjon, how do you feel about chapter 8, the chapter about Ministers of Music?
hey Rue, have you made it to the chapter about tithing? Doesn't appear to be anything new that hasn't been discussed at length by Hammerock and FuriousStyles


Hey LL, the author quoted a jewish rabbi saying teachers/pastors back in the day worked so they wouldn't need to be paid. Whats your take on paying pastors today?

Hey Bly, How do you think marketing plays into dressing up for church?

Hey MB, have you gotten your book from work yet?!?!?!

Is that 8? I thought it was 7.  I'll have to reread it real quick as I skipped ahead to that chapter. I'll let you in a couple of days.

[blyempowered]

Hey Sjon, how do you feel about chapter 8, the chapter about Ministers of Music?

hey Rue, have you made it to the chapter about tithing? Doesn't appear to be anything new that hasn't been discussed at length by Hammerock and FuriousStyles


Hey LL, the author quoted a jewish rabbi saying teachers/pastors back in the day worked so they wouldn't need to be paid. Whats your take on paying pastors today?

Hey Bly, How do you think marketing plays into dressing up for church?

Hey MB, have you gotten your book from work yet?!?!?!

Good question. I'd say that overall in our society, we view what you wear as critically important. Basically for us appearance matters. Traditionally I've been taught that when you go to church on Sunday you're suppose to give your best to God, and that includes clothing. I still dress up but I don't subscribe to that idea because I believe that what you wear shouldn't be the focal point of church and that we shouldn't judge people who choose to wear jeans. To me, clothing falls into the "to each its own" category.

But as far as marketing, our society sells the "appearance is everything" idea in church and that affects how we think, which then affects how we behave.

Btw chapter 7 is the ministers of music chapter. I haven't read it yet but (depending on how I progress today) I will get into it. One thing I do want to raise an issue with (not saying we should get rid of it because to some degree I kind of like it) is the idea that the Bible supports the praise team concept as the "best" concept as far as opening services. How do we know that the Levites were actually a praise team in the modern way we see it?

[blyempowered]

I'll be interested to see if anyone's ideas of tithing have been challenged or completely changed. This has been a huge debate for years on LGM and in the church as a whole. To me, the issue boils down to how Christians should view the OT and anything before Jesus' resurrection.

[phbrown]

yep you guys are right its chapter 7 concerning the Ministers of Music

[phbrown]

I'll be interested to see if anyone's ideas of tithing have been challenged or completely changed. This has been a huge debate for years on LGM and in the church as a whole. To me, the issue boils down to how Christians should view the OT and anything before Jesus' resurrection.

naw, the chapter about tithing did nothing for me. I mean if you read through some of the threads here the author did not raise any new points. To me it boils down to if you want to or not.

I personally like worshiping inside a church that has heating, air/c, plumbing, and enough space for everyone. So I tithe to support that, along with my pastor, piano player, and the janitor.

[phbrown]

One thing I do want to raise an issue with (not saying we should get rid of it because to some degree I kind of like it) is the idea that the Bible supports the praise team concept as the "best" concept as far as opening services. How do we know that the Levites were actually a praise team in the modern way we see it?

I see no difference between a praise team, and a bunch of deacons leading devotion. They are exactly the same where the only difference is the choice of songs. Therefore it is not the "best" concept in my opinion just a different flavor of the same concept.

A group of people standing up front, leading songs and asking the congregation to join in with the singing.

[lordluvr]

Hey Sjon, how do you feel about chapter 8, the chapter about Ministers of Music?

hey Rue, have you made it to the chapter about tithing? Doesn't appear to be anything new that hasn't been discussed at length by Hammerock and FuriousStyles


Hey LL, the author quoted a jewish rabbi saying teachers/pastors back in the day worked so they wouldn't need to be paid. Whats your take on paying pastors today?

Hey Bly, How do you think marketing plays into dressing up for church?

Hey MB, have you gotten your book from work yet?!?!?!

Good question. If I were a pastor, I wouldn't expect or want to get paid.  If the church wanted to give love offerings here and there, I wouldn't discourage them.  Aside from preparing sermons, pastors do stuff that normal Christians should be doing anyway, without pay.  Praying for folks?  Counseling?  Helping in time of need?  Teaching?  Etc?  Shoot, I do all of that here on LGM.  Daryl hasn't cut me a check yet.     Nor, would I want him to.  It's a labor of love.

If I ran a church, I'd have more responsibility, with regard to the maintenance of the building and stuff like that.  But, if we're large enough to justify having a building of our own, then we're likely large enough for me to hire staff to maintain it.  I wouldn't do it myself.