No more transpose challenge!

[Mysteryman]

Dude, if you were teaching guitar, it would be great.

The mysteryman method works for all instruments.  Its the same with guitar.

[tlb747]

How to learn all keys.

1. Major Scales in every key. If you know major scales you will know the minor. Just have to work on fingering. 

3. Learn the circle of 4ths and 5ths and the relative minor chords. You need to know how the keys relate. You will understand this more and more over time.

4. Learn basic progressions: 1-4-5, 2-5-1, 3-6-2-5-1, 1-7-3-6-2-5-1-4 in that order. This is the mysteryman method.

All you need is a basic understanding of number 3 and 4 if you are a beginner. The knowledge will come over time.

Great points because I am a beginner and do not play the keyboard piano well.  However, I am learning how to play by the "numbers system" because I do not know how to read sheet music.  For instance, the longest progression underlined on the list works well for me.  I added the numbers "1" (or my starting point) and "4" on that progresson because it leads me to the next key on the circle of forths/fifths chart.  For those who do not know the circle of forths/fifths, it is like a clock.  From 12 o'clock, the note/key/scale is in "C Major."  The following major keys going counter-clockwise are:

C, F, Bb, Eb, Ab, Db, Gb, B, E, A, D, G, and back to C

http://www.jakehertzog.com/files/circle_of_fifths2.jpg

I start in the key of "Bb Major" and work my way around the circle of forths/fifths to get back to "Bb Major."  The "numbers system" works for me because it is universal meaning if I learn something in a key (C Major for example), I can plug in the notes, scales, and (three-fingered) chords (that is all I can play at this time) with numbers and play the same thing for the other keys.  That would be my transposing.  To me, point number "1" made by the poster I quoted is the most important thing to know when learning how to play by the "numbers system" because it can cut down someone's learning time by a lot.  So far, I played in the major keys of C, Db, Eb, F, and Ab in church services and just started practicing in "G Major" yesterday because one lady has been visiting our church for a week (and it took that long to find out what key she was singing).  Any advice on quickly figuring out the key people sing in would be great.  I do not know if the keyboard at my church has a tranpose button on it.  If so, I would not know how to use it.  That is my challenge from transposing.  This year, I downloaded over 50 songs and I just wanted to say thanks to those who post them.  Finally, as many folks here know, real musicians play in every key.

[mawarren70]

Are Transposers real musicians? 

I used to would say no for, I believe in playing the song in whatever key it was either recorded in or in the song leaders voice range.

However, at my church we play practically every song in the key of F.  I find myself transposing just to play in another key.  In that case transposing is not a bad thing.

However, every now and then I will transpose because I am either trying to change my playing style or I play too traditional in that key.  For example, B natural is a key that I so rarely play in except in practice. In that key I do not use many passing chords using plain majors with the base line being one other notes played with my right hand.   

[theLearner]

The circle of 4ths and 5ths makes practicing very easy for you. If you can play in one key you can play in the keys to the right and left of it following the circle. There is so much more I can add but I follow these basic principles when I do practice serious. lol

hey guys. I'm from the drum forum (lol)
I'm a beginner in piano and I've been following this list on my way to learning the piano. I also have been following a lot of T-Block's posts and the ultimate music thread as well. Thanks for the guidance. Everyone here has been a tremendous help to tons of ppl who I'm sure silently follow this board.

My question is, Is the circle of 5ths crucial for me to learn? I've learned a bit about it, but as for using it to learn other keys, I haven't been using it. I've been learning the scales and getting quite comfortable in various keys (at least with knowing where the sharps are) without using the circle of 5ths. After a while, my fingers just know the right keys. Also, my approach hasn't been "ok, where are the sharps/flats"...
Its been more like "These are the keys in the major scale? oh Ok!"  lol
In other words, I don't approach other keys in Reference to C major

What are other benefits of the circle of 5ths other than for learning different keys?

[T-Block]

The 2 main purposes that I use the circle of 5ths for are:

1. Learning how many sharps or flats are in a key (major scale)

2. Progression movements (circle of 5ths backwards)

[T-Block]

In other words, I don't approach other keys in Reference to C major

I approach every key in reference to each other. Besides, theoretically there really is only one key, if you strictly use numbers. When you replace numbers with notes, then it's just a matter of different positions on the keyboard.

If that didn't make much sense try this: A C major chord is the same as a C# major chord, just in a different position, which is the same as a D major chord, etc. So, by learning what a major chord is (scale degrees 1, 3, 5), you have theoretically learned all 15 of them. You just have to replace them with notes. Make sense?

[theLearner]

I approach every key in reference to each other. Besides, theoretically there really is only one key, if you strictly use numbers. When you replace numbers with notes, then it's just a matter of different positions on the keyboard.

If that didn't make much sense try this: A C major chord is the same as a C# major chord, just in a different position, which is the same as a D major chord, etc. So, by learning what a major chord is (scale degrees 1, 3, 5), you have theoretically learned all 15 of them. You just have to replace them with notes. Make sense?

makes perfect sense. Thanks for the explanation

[Mysteryman]

If you have seen the circle of 4/5ths with the relative minor chords on the inside it will also teach you what chords will good in certain keys. I would have to look for the example.