A woman with the title Bishop?

[B3Wannabe]

I'm referring to how long will it be until someone who is outside of the Catholic denomination or any other denomination that has an office/title of Pope established start calling themselves Pope such and such.

example:  A pentacostal bishop having the audacity to call him or herself Pope.  And after that boundry is crossed I guess sci-fi religious titles would come next like the ones used on Star Trek.    can you imagine? I'm no longer Bishop Hasmo you can now call me Pope HaZ 

Sweet. When this happens, I'm going to bump this thread--even if it's 2025!

[Musiqsoul]

Ok, here's my problem: We all are of the same agreement about women Pastors and Bishops, and so forth, I mena the Bible is clear on the matter, (1st Timothy 3:1-2 says "1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer,(which is interperated as Elder, Pastor, or Bishop) it is a fine work he desires to do.
 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,"


Now it goes on in the other verse to name other things, but we all get the picture. What I don't get is phrases like "Well she aint my Pastor" or "It aint my church, so I don't care."

Folks we have to care, we are all part of one BODY!!! i'm not saying go looking for all these churches violating God's precise for these positoins, but when we are confronted by it we are to refute it with the Word just as Jesus did. Regardless of what we think, we as Christains look at ourselves as seperated sometimes, which is sad, but the world outside doesn't. And if they don't see a united Body, the enemy will take that and run with it. We need to pray DAILY that these fellow brothers and sisters come to know the truth, and deal with the issues. When we meet people who say they Pastor is so and so, we need to lovingly let them know the truth from the Word's perspective. Then let them decide on what to do, because as it was mentioned, people will do what they want to do any way, but it doesn't mean the we have to be passive.

[LaylaMonroe]

Ok, here's my problem: We all are of the same agreement about women Pastors and Bishops, and so forth, I mena the Bible is clear on the matter, (1st Timothy 3:1-2 says "1 It is a trustworthy statement: if any man aspires to the office of overseer,(which is interperated as Elder, Pastor, or Bishop) it is a fine work he desires to do.
 2 An overseer, then, must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, temperate, prudent, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,"


Now it goes on in the other verse to name other things, but we all get the picture. What I don't get is phrases like "Well she aint my Pastor" or "It aint my church, so I don't care."

Folks we have to care, we are all part of one BODY!!! i'm not saying go looking for all these churches violating God's precise for these positoins, but when we are confronted by it we are to refute it with the Word just as Jesus did. Regardless of what we think, we as Christains look at ourselves as seperated sometimes, which is sad, but the world outside doesn't. And if they don't see a united Body, the enemy will take that and run with it. We need to pray DAILY that these fellow brothers and sisters come to know the truth, and deal with the issues. When we meet people who say they Pastor is so and so, we need to lovingly let them know the truth from the Word's perspective. Then let them decide on what to do, because as it was mentioned, people will do what they want to do any way, but it doesn't mean the we have to be passive.

I don't agree with that.

I'm personally not down for sharing my negative opinion with complete strangers who didn't ask - particularly when it relates to something that doesn't affect my life.

Maybe this goes back to the stand in vs. stand against discussion....

[B3Wannabe]

I don't agree with that.

I'm personally not down for sharing my negative opinion with complete strangers who didn't ask - particularly when it relates to something that doesn't affect my life.

Maybe this goes back to the stand in vs. stand against discussion....

Do you proselytize your non-Christian friends? If so, then this would be the same thing. If not, then you are probably like me.

I don't actively proselytize. I do it passively. If someone asks me a question, then I tell them. If no one is asking me anything, then I may be doing the wrong thing.

[LaylaMonroe]

Do you proselytize your non-Christian friends? If so, then this would be the same thing. If not, then you are probably like me.

I don't actively proselytize. I do it passively. If someone asks me a question, then I tell them. If no one is asking me anything, then I may be doing the wrong thing.

I think I'm very much like you in that regard. I believe in my truth. Others believe in their truth. I really don't want them bugging me with what they believe to be the truth (my Muslim friends, JW friends, atheist friends, OSAS friends, etc.), so in courteous return, I don't bug them about what I believe to be the truth. 

If they ask me, I answer truthfully and blatantly (and if they know me, that's what they expect). I work on making my life and character mirror Christ so that I can proselytize without ever having to open my mouth.

[DirectingOrganist]

Folks we have to care, we are all part of one BODY!!! i'm not saying go looking for all these churches violating God's precise for these positoins, but when we are confronted by it we are to refute it with the Word just as Jesus did. Regardless of what we think, we as Christains look at ourselves as seperated sometimes, which is sad, but the world outside doesn't. And if they don't see a united Body, the enemy will take that and run with it. We need to pray DAILY that these fellow brothers and sisters come to know the truth, and deal with the issues. When we meet people who say they Pastor is so and so, we need to lovingly let them know the truth from the Word's perspective. Then let them decide on what to do, because as it was mentioned, people will do what they want to do any way, but it doesn't mean the we have to be passive.

I don't agree with this because I believe that we look a lot more separated if all we doing is talking about each other. I mean I know we do it enough, but if all we got to say about the church down the street, who has a woman pastor and so on, is negative how unified do we look to the "world outside"?

[pastor rob]

One question. If a woman could not lead, how could Deborah be a judge?

[JustBecause]

A Bishop is defined as a spiritual supervisor, overseer..

Bishop is the only gender specific leader I have read in the bible... a woman CAINT be the "Husband of one wife"...

I dont agree with women being Bishops cause the bible say so... I do believe we can be pastors, prophets, ministers, apostles etc.

[B3Wannabe]

A Bishop is defined as a spiritual supervisor, overseer..

Bishop is the only gender specific leader I have read in the bible... a woman CAINT be the "Husband of one wife"...

I dont agree with women being Bishops cause the bible say so... I do believe we can be pastors, prophets, ministers, apostles etc.

...but doesn't the bible also say that a woman can't be over a man? I'm just saying.

[LaylaMonroe]

...but doesn't the bible also say that a woman can't be over a man? I'm just saying.

I Timothy 2:12: But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

[JustBecause]

...but doesn't the bible also say that a woman can't be over a man? I'm just saying.

1 Tim 2:12 states "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Usurp is to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right...

That verse has nothting to do with a woman NOT being a leader in the church.... different translations of this verse can be inturpreted as a woman NOT being a leader or have athourity over a man...

The context of that scripture comes from women, during those times, in the church talking gossiping and carrying on... not paying atention to what was being taught... Basically being disruptive in church...

[churchyreal]

1 Tim 2:12 states "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Usurp is to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right...

That verse has nothting to do with a woman NOT being a leader in the church.... different translations of this verse can be inturpreted as a woman NOT being a leader or have athourity over a man...

The context of that scripture comes from women, during those times, in the church talking gossiping and carrying on... not paying atention to what was being taught... Basically being disruptive in church...

Yeah that's what I've heard because traditionally I've been one that is against women pastors. These days it's more about personal preference for me. I personally would not serve in a church under a woman pastor HOWEVER I will not knock those who would. At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.

FTR, I've always thought that the use of "Bishop" in that vese (1 Timothy 3) is used interchangably with "overseer, elder, maybe pastor"....

[JustBecause]

^^This

[LaylaMonroe]

1 Tim 2:12 states "But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."

Usurp is to seize and hold (a position, office, power, etc.) by force or without legal right...

That verse has nothting to do with a woman NOT being a leader in the church.... different translations of this verse can be inturpreted as a woman NOT being a leader or have athourity over a man...

The context of that scripture comes from women, during those times, in the church talking gossiping and carrying on... not paying atention to what was being taught... Basically being disruptive in church...

Actually, that would be Webster or Merriam's definition, or some other secular definition. In this particular verse, "usurp" means "exercise" or "govern" according to two different lexicons.

Furthermore, according to the literal translation, that part (usurp authority) of the scripture doesn't pertain to the church, but to marriage. "...and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness" - YLT

I am quite aware of the context in which Paul wrote, though I'd like to see some evidence that women were in the church gossiping and carrying on. That's news to me. Most historians will say that the women were asking their husbands (and/or the elders) questions during the teaching, which was disruptive to the gathering... I've never read that they were gossiping.

In any case, I've never personally accepted that retort anyway, since Paul (and the Holy Ghost who inspired him) is smart guy who appeared quite deliberate in his writings. If he wanted to say "I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence until such time as she has learned how to conduct herself during the service, like in the year 2010, for example," then that's what he would've said. I love how we pick and choose, and then put stuff under the veil of "context."  I believe strongly in dividing the Word in its proper context, but context doesn't mean we can ignore certain scriptures and say it doesn't pertain to us today.  If He was giving us guidance or instruction that only applied to a certain era, He could've said so.

Yeah that's what I've heard because traditionally I've been one that is against women pastors. These days it's more about personal preference for me. I personally would not serve in a church under a woman pastor HOWEVER I will not knock those who would. At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.

I MUST disagree with that, strongly.  There are really only two "interpretations" of that particular issue. Either it's okay for women to be in authority or it's not. One side of the argument has the correct interpretation. One side does not.  It's that simple.

FTR, I've always thought that the use of "Bishop" in that vese (1 Timothy 3) is used interchangably with "overseer, elder, maybe pastor"....

The word "bishop" in that scripture does mean "overseer" "elder" or "one who is in charge, or exercises oversight."  So, if we will hold to the idea that "he that findeth a wife findeth a good thing" must mean that only a man can find a woman, and not the other way around, then we must also accept that "if a man desire the office a bishop, he desireth a good work" means that only a man can be a bishop, overseer, elder, pastor, or exercise oversight.

[JustBecause]

.... Actually, that would be Webster or Merriam's definition, or some other secular definition. In this particular verse, "usurp" means "exercise" or "govern" according to two different lexicons.

Furthermore, according to the literal translation, that part (usurp authority) of the scripture doesn't pertain to the church, but to marriage. "...and a woman I do not suffer to teach, nor to rule a husband, but to be in quietness" - YLT....

Ursurp... in any definition means to take by force... seize... take the place of forcefully...

But N E way....

as someone stated earlier to each his/her own...

... At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.

^^ THIS!!!

[LaylaMonroe]

Ursurp... in any definition means to take by force... seize... take the place of forcefully...

Wrong.  But for the record, I'm not concerned about "any definition" anyway, since this isn't a matter of definition, it's a matter of translation from one language to another.

But anyway.... to each his own. 

[Docdb04]

The word "bishop" in that scripture does mean "overseer" "elder" or "one who is in charge, or exercises oversight."  So, if we will hold to the idea that "he that findeth a wife findeth a good thing" must mean that only a man can find a woman, and not the other way around, then we must also accept that "if a man desire the office a bishop, he desireth a good work" means that only a man can be a bishop, overseer, elder, pastor, or exercise oversight.

I agree.     

I don't believe it is biblical for a women to be an overseer.

At the end of the day, no one has the "correct" interpretation on this issue and no one probably ever will so at the end of the day, I would view this as a "to each it's own" issue. It also depends on if you interpret the bible literally or within its context. To me, that can totally shape which view you have on this issue.[/

I understand what you are saying, but I can't get with the whole "Literally and within its context". I believe that God's word means the same as it did, when it was written.  I believe that it is simple and straight forward.     

[JustBecause]

I agree.     

I don't believe it is biblical for a women to be an overseer.


I understand what you are saying, but I can't get with the whole "Literally and within its context". I believe that God's word means the same as it did, when it was written.  I believe that it is simple and straight forward.     

I ageree... but with their being so many different denominations out there... That is where the "Literally and within its context" comes from... The majority of people out there believe that their way of thinking and applying the Word of God is correct... and most people rather than seek out the truth they will beat you down wth their version...

IMO... and what I believe... is that the Holy Spirit will let you know when something is wrong... and it applies to scripture interpretation as well... A pastor said to me once eat the fish and spit out the bones... I'll go a step further... if you know the fish is boney stay away from it... LOL!!!!

But N E Way...

this whole Women Bishop thing could easierly be fixed if we had more men in the church... {clears thoat and summersaults off the soap box}

[B3Wannabe]

this whole Women Bishop thing could easierly be fixed if we had more men in the church... {clears thoat and summersaults off the soap box}

I have been thinking about this topic, but not just as it relates to church. Men, in general, in American culture, are absent. Marriages aren't working. People are having wanton sex. Children are being born out of wedlock....on purpose.

I would say that if the man is the head, then ultimately this is our fault. This may be a vicious circle too, since women can't truly teach a young boy how to be a man. No matter how you try, there will be a hole, if the father isn't there.

[churchyreal]

Amen!